To wonder why this mother has not been prosecuted for the death of child

[Marmotte3]

www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/he-wouldnt-settle-so-i-had-to-take-him-in-my-hands-while-driving-inquest-31595840.html

The article details the outcome of the inquest - death by misadventure. The father blames the airbag for killing the child but it is clear to me that it is the mother who is responsible for the death.

Maybe I'm wrong, I suppose it's possible there is a separate legal prosecution against her but it doesn't sound like it form the article.

As for the rest of us- there but for the grace of god go we.

Yes because we have all of us thought driving with a baby on our lap with no seat belt was just fine- except of course we haven't.

amarmai could you explain your second sentence? Are you suggesting that this could happen to anyone?
Don't think so. That's because most people follow the law and secure their children in the appropiate safety seats. A law that is designed to protect children that are too young to protect themselves.

What this woman did showed the same disregard for road safety and the safety of others as drunk drivers do. Are we supposed to feel sorry for them too?

Bet this mother blames herself each and every day and night

So she should. It's her fault. She is to blame. She was reckless and stupid and caused the death of a baby.

If she really has got previous driving convictions, then yes she should be prosecuted. I do have compassion that she lost her child but there has to be some legal consequences for continuing to break the law (assuming that she did break the law in Ireland). Either way, I think she should be banned from driving for a while and I guess that can only be achieved through a prosecution.

According to another article, their other son is in care. It doesn't explain why though. It makes it sound as though it's related as the dad said "now my second son is in care, I've lost my family" so it looks like social services are involved, even if the police aren't. Very sad that they've lost both their children over this.

I also remember when Britney Spears was photographed driving with her son on her lap and she was ripped to shreds, rightly or wrongly, despite having mental health issues. I don't remember anybody particularly sticking up for her in the media or in real life.

Apparently the penalty in Ireland for not having a child improperly restrained is €2000 and 4 points on her licence. I tend to think it would be a bit cunty to slap a poor family facing a funeral bill with a massive fine, and would impoverish the other child.

I don't know what else she could have been done for, she was stationery so not death by dangerous driving. Certainly not manslaughter or murder.

booyaka she was driving, on the wrong side of the road, no less.

She wasn't stationery Boo. In the link the OP posted she said "He wouldn't settle, so I had to take him in my hands while I was driving," and the bloke driving the other way said "I saw this car driving slowly towards us in my lane."

Would the fine and points just be if you were pulled over and it was noticed that there were children not strapped in maybe? Ie this wasn't just unrestrained children so no point in the fine/points.

Oh, and she wasn't wearing her own seatbelt either, to make things even worse.
Poor little baby, didn't stand a chance.

Sorry, you're right. Misread, thought Mrs Doyle was the mother.

I don't understand Simon's example.
If the bloke was driving a 4by4 how did he have 8 people in it? Him, the wife and at least six kids?

7 kids. I remember the case. And his partner in the car too. 9 people altogether, in a Land Rover.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1126933/Father-jailed-4x4-crash-killed-children.html

Babytookacupwoo You said you were confused about the court/ jury references in this case? The Coroner's Court in Ireland sometimes appoints a jury to reach a decision about the cause of death.

If you look at reporting of this particular case, this was one such occasion.

Despite re-reading that part of the article at least 5 times I thought Mrs Doyle was a bloke, so you're not alone Boo.

And if you read the Irish Times reporting of the case, one of the recommendations of the Coroner's jury was that the signage to the road the woman drove down the wrong way be made clearer as 'a matter of urgency'.

So there was a least one other factor which helped to create this tragic event. It doesn't make the factors that the mother was responsible for less. But it should explain that the decision of 'death by misadventure' was reached by consideration of all the circumstances.

"I think someone up thread had it right, about the Traveller connection. I used to work somewhere that had a lot of Travellers as customer so I got to know a few faces. I would see them pulling up in a car, usually untaxed, with no seatbelts on, children on an adults knees in the passenger seat and about five or six other kids piled in the back. Police never bothered with them either."

So is it really that unusual for non-travellers in Ireland to be somewhat laissez-faire about child car safety? We have Irish relatives, settled people who have a reasonably comfortable existence, and were shocked to find out some time back that while looking after DC1 (a toddler at the time) for an hour they had driven with her on the passenger's lap in the front seat - admittedly on a side road at low speed, but we've seen here that that's enough to kill a child. It was the last time they ever had sole responsibility for her! Now it seems their own young teenager is being allowed to 'drive', but hey, it's all OK because it's only on side roads at low speed (BTW we have no way of knowing if they're even telling the truth about this).

I also got the impression while there recently that Gardai are pretty good at overlooking traffic transgressions, 'minor' stuff like driving without an accompanying driver while still a learner because, sure, how would you ever get round in the countryside without the car etc. And if they find out that the person they pull over for speeding is actually a priest (sure Father, you're driving brand X car, aren't they well known for the speed gauge not working right, you couldn't have known you were a little over the limit...), no ticket would be written. So perhaps it's rather a national malaise, with the traveller community being a more extreme manifestation of it. This is the country where many older drivers have never passed a test because they were able to apply for an amnesty some years back.

Thanks oven chips

Archfarchnad there are older drivers in this country who have not taken the driving test. I do agree to some extent- you're describing the Ireland I remember 30 Years ago and I thought things had improved but maybe not in some areas.

Archfarchnad, I think your relatives are unusual; have never come across laxness regarding car seats in last 15 years or so. There is something in what you say about Gardai overlooking things. Like people driving on the hard shoulder on the motorway, I see that all the time and don't understand it.

I think it's partly because of the huge impact not being able to drive or get insurance to do so can have on people living in rural areas where it can literally ruin your life.

"I think your relatives are unusual" Well, that's a relief. I've always thought they were a bit unusual though . The teenager apparently driving really shocks me though, I hope it's not true. At least not until he turns 14...

"Archfarchnad there are older drivers in this country who have not taken the driving test." My now departed MIL never took her test and she was a SHOCKING driver, even after 30 years. Have to say, we were driving on the main motorway from Dublin to Galway recently and the slack discipline suggested that quite a few people hadn't had too many lessons in their lives.

What I was hearing a few weeks back was that there was a huge delay to get a test date, nearly a year in some cases, and the gardai were aware of that too so if you're caught without a licence you'd just say 'well I applied ages ago' and they'd nod sympathetically.

"Like people driving on the hard shoulder on the motorway, I see that all the time and don't understand it." That's bad enough and it's one thing - I was appalled by the number of people merrily tootling along well under the speed limit in the overtaking lane.

I remember the first time I saw an Irish motorway - might have been the ring around Dublin a few decades back - and it had a big sign at the entrance banning horse-drawn vehicles. I wonder if the people hogging the hard shoulder would actually rather be in a pony and trap!

No, that is true about the pony and traps Maud. They have one at the entrance to the new tunnel in Limerick which only opened in 2010. But those are very definitely aimed at travellers.

I have to laugh at your motorway description because it does happen. I have always assumed it was more because there didn't used to be any motorways

Archfarchnad, what you seem to be describing is either a scene from the quiet man or The Guard. What a silly thing to say about guards not charging the priests for speeding. How do you know that? How many priests that were caught speeding and told you this, do you know exactly? I don't think the traffic guards are lax at all. The opposite in fact and again I can't see them nodding sympathetically when you tell them your waiting for a test! A massive generalisation!