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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why this mother has not been prosecuted for the death of child

225 replies

Marmotte3 · 10/10/2015 00:03

www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/he-wouldnt-settle-so-i-had-to-take-him-in-my-hands-while-driving-inquest-31595840.html

The article details the outcome of the inquest - death by misadventure. The father blames the airbag for killing the child but it is clear to me that it is the mother who is responsible for the death.

Maybe I'm wrong, I suppose it's possible there is a separate legal prosecution against her but it doesn't sound like it form the article.

OP posts:
Mmmmcake123 · 10/10/2015 01:11

The fact dh supports mum could well be that he understands she would have been stressed and he hadn't recognised it. Very sad case, hope mum never gets to read any of this, if only for the sake of her living son. She needs support, condemnation will only bring the family down even more. V tragic, rip little one

shins · 10/10/2015 01:16

It's really sad and horrible but I think part of the reluctance to prosecute is the fact that the lady in question is a Traveller. Anyone who lives in rural Ireland will tell you how common it is for Travellers to drive with their kids up front of the van or car without a seatbelt-I've seen kids on the back of an open truck like it was the 1970s -but there's also a powerful rights lobby which makes people reluctant to get involved in litigation or prosecutions. I wish that wasn't a factor in this story but there's no doubt that it is.

Mermaidhair · 10/10/2015 01:18

We are just speculating. You are saying what if she has mh issues. Maybe this is something she has done before, sometimes people do stupid things. We don't know.

RJnomaaaaaargh · 10/10/2015 01:22

I was not aware they were travellers. It doesn't change my comments.

Ohbehave1 · 10/10/2015 01:29

Ffs. She killed a child through her own recklessness. Regardless of the fact it was hers, and she "will have to live with it for the rest of her life", she killed an innocent child who sho should have been protecting.

If she had been talking on her phone and driven onto the pavement and killed someone else's child there would be no question of should she be prosicuted.

Sorry, but this was not a simple momentary lapse of judgement. As has been said, she stopped the car, got out, and drove off with a child in her arms. It is just one stupid act after another after another.

sleeponeday · 10/10/2015 01:51

I have no doubt the woman will suffer for the rest of her life as a result of her actions but, in comparison, a woman in the UK has been jailed for 5 years when her child fell into a pond in the garden.

That mother had been reported to the NSPCC for letting her toddlers roam the streets inadequately clothed, barefoot, and hungry. She'd also had social services involvement for a near-miss car accident when she allowed her 18 month old toddler - the one who died at two - to play on the road, and he was nearly run over by an Astra. She knew the large pond was easily accessible, and agreed people had warned her that it was incredibly dangerous and she needed to cover it or fence it in, but she'd done nothing. She then allowed her two year old to play outside, alone in that environment, while she was inside on Facebook. This time, he had no second chance and he died.

She pleaded guilty to four counts of child neglect and her sentence reflected the fact she took a course of action which repeatedly placed her toddler at risk, without learning from those mistakes or changing her behaviour. Her child eventually, and arguably inevitably, paid the ultimate price.

In my mind, the woman in the car is more culpable from her actions.

This mother was upset by the baby's distress and took a monumentally stupid decision to stop that distress. Her baby's welfare was, however, her aim, and she now has to live with the fact that by that chronic lapse in judgement, driven by hating her baby to be upset, she's killed her own child.

I don't agree that a mother making one idiotic choice should go to prison when she's been so badly punished already. The other mother was consistently neglectful and her child's death almost probable, given her attitude to protecting him from risk.

Different situations completely.

UsernameIncorrect · 10/10/2015 02:05

I think the lack of education and poor mental health of Irish Travellers is an contributing factor here.

LadyLu87 · 10/10/2015 02:06

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steff13 · 10/10/2015 02:06

The woman should be prosecuted. She can't have been in full control of the vehicle. As it happened it was her child that was killed, but it could have been someone else.

I think this is a good point. Is drunk driving only illegal if you hurt someone? If you do kill someone in an accident driving drunk, should there be no punishment because having to live with the fact that you killed someone is punishment enough? Not charging her is almost implying that the child was her property - he belonged to her, therefore, it's not as bad as if she had killed a stranger.

RJnomaaaaaargh · 10/10/2015 02:14

Some serious questions for consideration in a general sebse

Does lack of intent mean an action is not criminal?
Does the action impacting on the person who commits it as well as the victim mean it is not criminal?

Mermaidhair · 10/10/2015 02:22

Yes we are basing our comments on a media story that was linked. People judge others every single day. We don't one if she was sleep deprived or mentally ill. We don't know if this is something that was done regularly. What we do know is that a baby died. If she had hit into you also and killed somebody precious to you I think you would judge. As somebody else said it seems because it was her own child it is seen differently. This baby had a right to its own life. I'm getting confused though, is it illegal to drive with an infant on your lap in the Uk? The only other person I have heard doing this in a developed country is Brittany Spears. When a child dies due to someone committing an illegal act people will judge.

multivac · 10/10/2015 02:28

This baby had a right to its own life

What do you think this means?

Mermaidhair · 10/10/2015 02:29

I know what it means. And I think you do to.

multivac · 10/10/2015 02:31

I have no idea what you think it means.

Mermaidhair · 10/10/2015 02:36

Why are you asking me what I think it means?

RJnomaaaaaargh · 10/10/2015 02:36

Are you suggesting it didn't?

ALassUnparalleled · 10/10/2015 02:36

I think she should be prosecuted, but I'm a cold bitch when it comes to stuff like this. She took an unnecessary and illegal risk; there's no reason on earth to take a child out of its carseat in a moving vehicle

I agree. Stupid and selfish behaviour.

multivac · 10/10/2015 02:39

She didn't kill anyone precious to anyone else, because it was a 'low impact, low speed collision'- and the only person not protected against that, was her child.

Here's a thing for the mumsnet jury to chew over.

^"I saw this car driving slowly towards us in my lane. I presumed she was going to react, but she was not stopping," said Mrs Doyle.

"I pressed the horn and flashed the lights. I did everything I could to get her attention, to let her know she was on the wrong side of the road."^

So Mrs Doyle was pretty aware of what was going on. But it was her right of way.

RJnomaaaaaargh · 10/10/2015 02:44

Oh ok so we are going to blame mrs Doyle now?

As opposed to the woman flagrantly breaking the law on three accounts (side of road, seatbelt, car seat)

I'm almost tempted to ask if you have done this yourself.

multivac · 10/10/2015 02:46

Why are you asking me what I think it means?

Because I'm interested in your answer. Sorry - is that confusing?

multivac · 10/10/2015 02:47

Oh ok so we are going to blame mrs Doyle now?

We?

AgentZigzag · 10/10/2015 02:50

The baby's right to life should have been acknowledged.

That even though he was only 3 months old, he was vulnerable and had a right to be protected. If his mum wasn't able to do that then the state should at least have it down on record that he was important and his death did involve negligence and wasn't just a mishap.

Mermaidhair · 10/10/2015 02:54

I'm confused as to why you are not unable to understand what I wrote. I'm confused as to why you are taking a special interest in what I have to say. I am confused as to why you wrote that she didn't kill anyone precious to another person. Oh so that's ok then? As it was her child that's ok. I'm glad I am someone who cares about anyone being killed unavoidably and illegally. I wonder if that baby was precious to anybody else.

multivac · 10/10/2015 02:54

Everyone's 'right to life' has an expiry date.

RJnomaaaaaargh · 10/10/2015 02:55

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