To wonder why this mother has not been prosecuted for the death of child

[Marmotte3]

www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/he-wouldnt-settle-so-i-had-to-take-him-in-my-hands-while-driving-inquest-31595840.html

The article details the outcome of the inquest - death by misadventure. The father blames the airbag for killing the child but it is clear to me that it is the mother who is responsible for the death.

Maybe I'm wrong, I suppose it's possible there is a separate legal prosecution against her but it doesn't sound like it form the article.

Obviously this is massively emotive. But let's consider all the reported facts here.

Firstly Mrs Doyle was turning right (and apparently not moving) so I imagine it would've been very difficult for her to tak evasive action. So let's leave her out of it.

Secondly- the child's car seat was on the front passenger seat. Which we are pretty much all aware is wrong in the first place (due to air bags). The mother said she has been suffering depression since the birth of her child. But the installation of that seat would in all likelihood be prior to birth so that's a questionable decision as to the safety of the child in any event.

Thirdly she wasn't wearing a seat belt which has also been noted as a contributing factor in the death and was not paying due care and attention whilst driving leading to her being on the wrong side of the road.

I have compassion for the mother, having suffered from depression BUT she made a number of high risk choices which ultimately cost the life of one child & could've jeopardised that of the other. She has a lot of mitigating factors but that shouldn't 'save' her from prosecution.

Very sad story. As a direct result of the mothers actions a child lost his life. Tbh i cant understand why anyone would keep driving with a child not strapped in. Nothing can be gained by locking the mother up. However image that mother was a paid child carer and that child was your child and the same event happened. rip little man x

This wasn't in the UK- not sure if the law is the same in Ireland

Having thought about it I suspect PP may be right about the traveller connection

I work in Finglas, the area of Dublin where this happened. This case is extreme, but reflects the culture of benign neglect from some parents in the area (a small minority, thank goodness!). Parents puffing smoke over babies in buggies, fizzy drinks in bottles and ridiculously early weaning. The fact that the dad in this article used to feed the baby 'baby dinners', when he was only turning 3 months old, says a lot about the family's lack of knowledge.
This woman made an awful decision, one that she will have to live with all her life. I do think that ignorance is not an excuse for something as obviously dangerous as this though. She should have been prosecuted, but I would hope that a judge would be compassionate when it came to sentencing. I've heard (but may be wrong) that the couple's other child has been removed from their care.
Such a sad story.

Yes I was shocked by the baby dinners. Fuck knows how a 3m old ate a dinner

Absolutely should be prosecuted. Poor little boy

That poor baby

fucking hell! I am lost for words

That poor woman was bloody stupid - really bloody stupid, and probably tired and stressed and not thinking straight, probably shouldn't have been driving.

Go to prison? really??? fuck off

Not prison necessarily, but at the very least to be seen to be held accountable.

She absolutely should be prosecuted for causing death by dangerous driving.
'She's suffered enough, she's lost her child' should not be a defence to doing something fucking stupid that results in death.
Where would you draw the line? I encountered a case recently where someone was driving like a moron and crashed, killing his passenger who was his sister. He was understandably devastated but still jailed for 4 years. There has to be consequences of killing someone through gross negligence.

Multivac I'm with you all the way. As for assuming you're a troll - the mind boggles.

IMO the level of insight and debate on this thread is very, very low. All I'm waiting for now is an impassioned plea of "Oh won't someone think of the children?!"

I am glad the Irish justice system is of a different view to majority on here and has dispensed justice, not a punitive Daily Mail-esque kneejerk reaction.

Of course she should be prosecuted, she broke the law.
If she was suffering from 'sleep deprivation' then she shouod never have been driving in the first place. She wasn't only putting herself and her passengers at risk, but also other drivers.

whenever you make a choice to get in a car you take full responsibility for what happens if you're tired/stressed/otherwise likely to be or make blatently poor decisions

the man who caused a major train crash when he fell asleep at the wheel was convicted of dangerous driving.

the understandable compassion felt towards the driver would better be reflected via sentencing options - suspending the sentance probably

Senpai Sat 10-Oct-15 04:17:10

She should be prosecuted according to the law, and her feelings shouldn't come into it. By saying she's "punished enough" ignores the fact that this baby was a human in his own right. He was an individual human, not just an extension of mom or her property. He deserves justice according to the law, just like an older child or adult would.

MH issues shouldn't mitigate it either. If she had PND it's her responsibility to get it taken care of at the very least. But even so, this isn't a case of forgetfulness or careless impulse. She had to deliberately unbuckle the baby, take him out, and hold him... while driving.

That's willful determination to put that child's life in danger and it needs to be addressed.

I agree with this.

And instead of everyone speculating/assuming MH issues, the proper place to air the facts/opinions is during a prosecution.

The law has to apply to everyone, we can't decide to prosecute some and not others. There have been other people who killed their own children unintentionally and they have still been prosecuted.

dont you think she will already be suffering enough. This isnt going to set a precedent for people who want to kill children. The very news that this has happened will make people more aware of safety, not to throw te poor woman in jail too. Wow

I don't understand people claiming that the law has not been applied. The matter was heard in the Coroner's Court and the jury in the Coroner's Court, who was privy to all the facts, reached a verdict of 'death by misadventure'.

It's a different verdict to some of the other cases mentioned on here where others were found guilty of dangerous driving, but it has still gone through the legal process.

Just because the verdict is not what you agree with does not mean the law has not been applied.

The mum had taken the baby out of his seat, was holding him while she drove, had the airbag on, was on the wrong side of the road, did not react to another car coming towards her.

Was she sleep-deprived? Not thinking clearly? Ignorant? Something else?

Whatever caused her to make all these choices, she has either broken the law or not. She is certainly responsible for the death of another human being. Of course it's terrible for her. But that poor baby, with all his potential, has lost his life.

Reaching this conclusion has nothing to do with having compassion or not. Nobody is denying how dreadful the mother must feel and how devastated she is at the loss of her baby. But it was her fault! Would people be so forgiving if a dad had left his electric drill plugged in and a toddler had killed himself with it? The death is unintended and it's a tragedy for the parent just the same but we'd all be saying he's a bloody idiot who is entirely responsible. Only on mumsnet would people be so instantly forgiving without any objectivity to see the bigger picture.

I don't really know where I stand but there was another story recently of a woman who was face booking on her phone when her toddler drowned in a pond and as was charged with neglect. She will suffer just as much as this woman so why one be orisecuted and not the other?

I know this happened in Ireland but it's a bit of a contrast to this:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-34491753

I thought the sentence was a bit harsh. They should never have had an accessible pond in the garden with a small child, but I think five years in prison is a bit excessive. She'll have suffered a lot already.

DrDre I have just read that and thought a similar thing

To the last 3 posters - if you actually read the thread you'd see this has been extensively debated already.

I agree with those who say this woman absolutely should be prosecuted but take into account the anguish she's already sufferered during sentencing.

Ovenchips re Irish law I remember a recent case here where a woman was prosecuted for the death of her niece in a car crash. I think she got a suspended sentence. I don't think posters here want "Daily Mail style kneejerk reaction" or a long stretch in jail but a prosecution would acknowledge that the baby was a person whose death was attributable to someone's criminal neglect. Child abuse and neglect is rife in the travelling community and unfortunately the well-meaning rights lobby do them no favours, crying discrimination at every turn. It doesn't sound like the poor baby had a great start to begin with and the failure to prosecute is the final insult.

Brie and DrDre and Ophelia the contrasting story of the mother jailed after her son drowned in a pond was discussed in some detail further up the thread.

The lady was a traveller, it wasn't the first time she drivr without seatbelt and she had previous convictions re driving. Her husband also had previous convictions. She deserves to be prosecuted. She drive on wrong side of the road as well. Nothing to do with being sleep deprived. She just didn't give a shite about law and order and has now paid the ultimate price. Her husband shouted up it was the airbags fault. I don't actually feel sorry for her at all anf I'm usually v sympathetic. I am not cold and have kids of my own. This case sickens me. No need at all for that poor baby to die.