To be annoyed/hurt by my good friend and think high earners should be willing to pay more ?

[whatislife]

i have been lurking on MN for a long time and never posted. Decided to join today and thought I'd mark the occasion with a rant.
I got in an argument with my friend (2 days ago) and the anger re-appeared when she sent me a text this morning. This doesn't really matter though.

The argument started when she made a snarky comment about an old friend of ours (not very close to be honest). The woman had been complaining about money and started ranting about high earners, tax and all sorts. My friend , a very high earner (think 6 figures), kept quiet the whole while and then started talking about it to me. This is where she said something along the lines of 'No one forced her to messed around at school and screw her life up. Im not going to feel bad because I worked hard' and 'why should I pay more tax when I already pay a ridiculous amount and she doesn't pay any'. These comments really angered me because I am also a low earner and rely on benefits - she knows this ! So we got into an argument about tax and benefits (silly i know but personal comments were also made).

My question is ; AIBU to think my close friend (and high earners in general) should realise how lucky she is and be willing to pay more tax so people like me can also have a normal life?

people in RL saying or implying that they are wealthy "because of hard work" and/or others are not because of the opposite is a good way to spot dickheads IME

lets show a bit of gratitude to the 300,000 people in this country (yes, fewer than the population of a large London borough) who pay more in income tax than they use.

You mean the people profiting most from the labour of those earning far less than them? Why in the actual fuck would anyone owe them gratitude?

Really what I object to is fit and healthy people thinking that they are owed a living off the back of other people's work.

Oh God, this paired with the quote in my last post is just priceless.

YABU

Not saying every higher rate tax payer works harder (though generally they will AND be more stressed!) but why isn't it enough that we pay more tax (even as same % as lower rate tax payers) rather than an increased % too - why be stressed to fuck to lose half our wages?!!

I doubt we will ever see a unanimous opinion on this subject.

The old 'I've worked hard' line is trotted out. Yes those who are earning a six figure salary more than likely have worked hard. Though it is easy to ignore the reality if how ones beneficial circumstances assisted that hard work.

The attitude that those that don't earn a lot couldn't have tried hard or worked as hard stinks too. Just as much as the idea that those earning a lot should hand move over in tax (because those that are high earners and honest tax payers do pay a lot) stinks too.

The biggest thing that always seems to be overlooked is what area of business someone moves into

A ruthless corporate lawyer will earn multitudes of money but may destroy lives along the way shouldn't be financially rewarded to such extremes and a carer for the severely disabled will earn a pittance should be rewarded more. A top paediatrician that works long hours whilst doing their upmost to help their patients earns, and deserves, their salary in my opinion as does the person who stacks the shelves in a Tesco earn and deserve theirs. We need both but the higher paid on went through more to get were they are.

Still though you need good health through your climb to the top. That's is down to luck.

There is a pretty clear correlation between educational attainment and earnings muminthecity even if there are individuals that buck the trend. And few people do well at school without applying themselves. And if you think all children are equally hard working go pay a visit to your local secondary sometime, or go onto all the school threads here where parents are tearing their hair out because their child won't apply themselves.

If person A works hard for 60 hours a week and gets paid 15k and person B works hard for 60 hours a week and gets paid 300k (paying 150K in tax and keeping 150K) then yes I think person B should still think themselves bloody lucky they have 10 times the take home money of person A after working the same number of hours

Uh-huh. But what when person A doesn't work hard, in fact doesn't work at all, and collects benefits, and person B works hard for 80 hours a week and did 6+ years of high level study to get to that position?
Should Person B be thinking themselves lucky, or should person A?

I just logged in to post to say that I would attribute my success 50/50 between luck (interested parents, a stable home, a quiet bedroom to work in, good health) and bloody hard work (long hours at law school, late nights once qualified). But I have just done a full day of meetings, picked my kids up played with them and read with them and now they are asleep I am firing up the laptop with several hours of work ahead. And dates in my diary for weekend working when the kids are at their dads. I feel tired and drained tonight but I will buckle down nonetheless as my ex has slashed the maintenance so I have to keep a roof over our heads

Ps many lawyers are t ruthless and commercial and we provide a valuable contribution to justice/security /protecting the vulnerable etc.

Many of the 'high-earners' on here might be so because of subsidised, or even free, university education which was once provided via the tax paid by people who've since suffered some sort of life-changing (income reducing) event or by lower paid, working class people.

The current 'high-earners' should be aware that things can change in the blink of an eye (and I definitely know that) so don't be too quick to judge others - just in case..

My DP is self employed. He's 28 and is running two business which he set up at 21. He works very hard and, after seven years, is finally earning enough not to have to worry about where his rent is coming from.

His businesses are growing and I have no doubt will be very successful in the future. I really disagree that he should be punished for all that hard work by having to pay more tax.

I say this as someone who doesn't earn much either, but I think people who earn their money deserve to keep as much of it as lower earners are able to.

Didn't say all lawyers were ruthless you silly billy throwingpeddles I referred to those that are (and ergo made money from others loss) didn't deserve financial rewards

YANBU in the slightest, but you will get massive stick for this because nobody, not noone, likes the implication that they are selfish in any way... if you're at the top of the pile, it's nice to comfort yourself that you earned it, there definitely wasn't any element of luck involved, just sheer hard work, and all y'all just jealous, and while I'm at it, I'm taking my ball home. If you're at the bottom, you can commiserate about external factors affecting your life. It cuts both ways.

I now earn a completely average salary in a stable job and I've absolutely no doubt the only reason I am where I am is a combination of v. hard work and sheer, blind luck. I've not magically become a better person since I stopped being on JSA!

One of the most pervasive myths of capitalism is that a) we all have equality of opportunity and b) hard work = success. It doesn't. It's mathematically impossible for everyone to land a good job, even if they all put an equal amount of effort in. In a sense, it's another manifestation of the Just World Fallacy: good things happen to good people; bad things happen to bad people. Good people get good jobs and work an honest wage; bad feckless scroungers make bad decisions and are lazy and deserve everything that's coming to them. Real life is shades of grey. It's amazing how many grown adults don't get that.

YANBU.

I too hate the 'I've worked hard so I deserve it' attitude. Many,many people on low income, zero hour contracts work extremely hard for a pittance - I currently work the hardest I have ever worked in my life and I am nearly 60 for £7 an hour. I've been lucky enough to earn a very good salary, with excellent perks in the past and I have never begrudged paying my share of the tax bill.

Lots of people end up in very nice, well paid jobs through sheer good luck, it's not always down to 'working hard'.

What my parents did give me was a good work ethic and, equally importantly, a good look at what life with no qualifications or a poorly paid job looks like.

I see - and having parents who instil a work ethic does rather fit my broader point.

So are you asking for charity?

So true Snufflet.

There are some very naive comments being made on here.

Lots of people end up in very nice, well paid jobs through sheer good luck, it's not always down to 'working hard'.

Not always. But quite often. But why let the facts get in the way of a rant?

Point here being, high earners DO pay a lot of tax. Low earners pay little to none. The tax of high earners subsidises the income of low earners.
Now, you can talk all you like about how and why and how fair it all is, but they are hard facts, and giving out shite to high tax payers for not paying even more while you pay fuck all is more than a little cunty behaviour.

How much tax would you like her to pay? She's already paying 40% and possibly she's into the 50% band as well.

How much would you like her to pay? What do you think is a fair amount?

It always staggers me that high earners can be so blind to the role of good fortune in their, er, good fortune.

I had an abusive childhood but I worked hard at school (primary school was my sanctuary, not so much secondary school though because of the bullies). Not once did anyone suggest that I could do better than the menial jobs that were suggested and I didn't know that it was possible to train for better jobs so I went to college and trained to work with children. This worked well for me as a single person but when I divorced my lazy abusive arse of a husband I realised that I couldn't support me and the DC on that kind of salary. I did other courses that helped me raise my salary a little but it's still not enough. Due to working hard and raising the DC on my own (NC with family because of the need to protect my DC and an XH who does next to no parenting) I developed a chronic health condition.

I'm too old and too ill to change my circumstances. I work full time but it's not a hard job, I can't do hard because of my physical limitations and I can't retrain to do something that will pay more. All I can do now is to make things different for the DC. DD1 has just started uni and DD2 is predicted A/A* in her GCSEs. I hope they can earn enough not to rely on tax credits or similar. If they become high earners I hope that they'll realise how lucky they've been to have had opportunities that I didn't have. And I've had more opportunities than some other people, when I think about what the lives that some children have I can see how they're likely to be people who need support throughout their lives. Most of the reasons why are not their fault. I hope that if my DC become high earners they won't resent a penny of their taxes going to help people more unfortunate than themselves, people like me maybe. I hope that if they earn a lot that they would happily give more than they are required to give.

Now, you can talk all you like about how and why and how fair it all is, but they are hard facts, and giving out shite to high tax payers for not paying even more while you pay fuck all is more than a little cunty behaviour.

As is not recognising one's own good fortune when sitting right in the middle of it, and recognising that if we want a functioning society, the rich need to pay more than the poor, both as a proportion and as an absolute.

At the end of the day it does depend how much hard work you put into your education and yes some people find it hard at school and some find it easy. At the same time some people are at the right place at the right time where they end up in a great career. Myself I didn't take advantage of my school days at the time and ended up having to go back to college later on in years but I certainly do not begrudge anyone who is earning more than myself as that's just the way it is. The jealousy factor does come into this subject a lot and if I was earning a shed loads of money I wouldn't want anyone dictating to me how much tax I should and shouldn't be paying.