To be annoyed/hurt by my good friend and think high earners should be willing to pay more ?

[whatislife]

i have been lurking on MN for a long time and never posted. Decided to join today and thought I'd mark the occasion with a rant.
I got in an argument with my friend (2 days ago) and the anger re-appeared when she sent me a text this morning. This doesn't really matter though.

The argument started when she made a snarky comment about an old friend of ours (not very close to be honest). The woman had been complaining about money and started ranting about high earners, tax and all sorts. My friend , a very high earner (think 6 figures), kept quiet the whole while and then started talking about it to me. This is where she said something along the lines of 'No one forced her to messed around at school and screw her life up. Im not going to feel bad because I worked hard' and 'why should I pay more tax when I already pay a ridiculous amount and she doesn't pay any'. These comments really angered me because I am also a low earner and rely on benefits - she knows this ! So we got into an argument about tax and benefits (silly i know but personal comments were also made).

My question is ; AIBU to think my close friend (and high earners in general) should realise how lucky she is and be willing to pay more tax so people like me can also have a normal life?

Sigh, this won't end well.

Why is she lucky, and why should she pay for your lifestyle?

Playing devil's advocate, and taking my own opinion out of this, I'm interested in why you think she owes you a living.

Popcorn anyone? Deckchair rental only £1 a day

Yes YABU.

I've studied and made massive sacrifices to get the job I do and the salary I receive (which incidentally isn't 6 figures, but puts me in the 40% tax bracket). I was also a single parent whilst studying and establishing my career (was on housing benefit and income support whilst I did my MSc).

I made the choice to study hard, to juggle motherhood with university and to get an au pair and share a room with DD to enable me to get on the career ladder and work 100+ hours a week.

My career and salary are not down to "luck" but to bloody hard work. You have choices in life - if you want to earn more, then do something about it rather than expecting to be subsidised.

wonders how many will take the bait

I'll take some popcorn and one of those £1 rental deck chairs. Will you take payment via PayPal

Shall I pop the kettle on for some while I'm at it?

No her lifestyle and earnings are not down to luck,it's more likely to be down to damned hard work,so why should she subsidise others who have not been so "lucky"

Judging by the last general election result, YABU. It's the basic conservative view - you are responsible only for yourself.

I think you're being a bit harsh on your friend, by suggesting she is where she is through sheer luck. She's probably being unreasonable to say it's all down to hard work. The answer is probably somewhere in the middle, for most high earners. Enough hard work and a fortunate set of opportunities to put that hard work to use earning ££££s.

And there it gets difficult. If someone is genuinely lucky, and through no effort on their own part, gets rich, we often have a gut instinct that some sharing of the wealth is the right thing to do. If someone has worked to earn that wealth, why should it be taken from them (so many think, rich or poor).

Is there anything you can do to improve your own circumstances, because I fear that we are in for the long slog with the current government and the way society is moving.

Right i ve been on both ends of the arguement.

I ve been in a shitty minimum wage job

Im now earning 70k a year before tax.

I didnt do well at school, i didnt try, couldnt be arsed to train in anything. Went to college and eventually trained in a minimum wage job. I really had to push myself to do this course.

Now i run a business which my husband transferred over to me whilst he built up another one.

Having seen the work my dh has to put in to build a business which earns a great salary, i can understand why people feel resentful at paying extortionate tax.

I agree that high earners should not pay stupid amounts of tax to fund people who havent pushed themselves so they can earn more.

I already pay 20k a year in tax. I think that is a stupid amount.

Oh god, there are reasons our mothers discouraged discussing politics. Either someone will agree with you wholeheartedly and you can froth together (ooer missus) or you will both get irate and think the other is a dickhead.

We've struggled in the past, not massively so, but bad enough. OH has now had a substantial payrise, and was a bit [shocked] when he saw his tax bill - his previously liberal views are now starting to waver! I must say I still think those with biggest shoulders should take the biggest strain, but can see how others don't. Politics innit.

YANBU in being angry that your friend decided to used you and your circumstances particularly to bolster her argument with someone else. That was really rude when you weren't the one making the comments.

SINBU in feeling that she shouldn't feel bad for working/studying v hard and deserves the wage she earns.

Your other friend was BU for mentioning tax/politics/finances in the same sentance.

Popcorn anyone?

YABU.

I privately try very, very hard not to resent the amount of tax DH and I both pay. I would NEVER dream of mentioning this in RL though and remind myself that I have received benefits too - in the form of maternity benefits.

But I absolutely DO NOT want to pay any more tax and I agree with some of the proposed changes to benefits though I wouldn't be thoughtless enough to mention this to someone who was going to be directly impacted by them.

And I know it's not as easy as working harder = more money and the implication that low earners are lazy is ridiculous BUT there are people out there who deliberately work a certain number of hours and no more and rely on benefits to 'top them up' and that irritates me.

I think you should take a minute to realise how lucky YOU are. You live in a country where you have access to education, medical care and financial assistance. You have sanitation and don't have to wonder if you will have clean water to drink when you wake up.

Your friend doesn't seem to begrudge paying more tax. She realises that her taxes (and others) helps support others who haven't had the same earning potential.

But she does resent the comments from the other friend who seems to believe she should be paying even more tax.

She's lucky to have had the opportunities to help her become a high earner. You're lucky that you live in a society that enables (most) people to be able to afford the basics, although I realise that life could and should be far more comfortable than it is for many people. There are still too many people who struggle financially through Ill health, caring responsibilities, lack of employment opportunities etc.

'No one forced her to messed around at school and screw her life up.'

I am not a high earner but this really resonates with me. All those years I spent having the piss taken out of me for working hard at school by those who whiled away their time doing jack shit and actively trying to disrupt the class. Many of them went on to have poorly paid jobs or no jobs and I don't doubt they feel entitled to state support to make ends meet (they were certainly entitled enough 30 years ago).

There are elements of luck with how your life turns out but I know very few people who have consistently worked hard all their lives and got nowhere. Certainly not as many as who take things easy, make bad choices and then complain when things don't land in their laps

No, most people don't have choices.

Don't have opportunities to improve themselves.

It's massively arrogant to think it's down to 'hard work' - really it is instead true that statistically don't move far from their station in life.

People in minimum wage jobs do not work less hard than people who are paid more. There may be less skill but they do generally work just as hard

Can't believe anyone would think otherwise

OK, I am going to take the bait on this one as I was discussing exactly this point last night with my (privately educated) DC in response to the proposed cuts in tax credits.

I am a very high earner and a single parent, but if cuts need made it is much fairer to take £1k a month more from people like me than people who are poorly paid and really need the money. OK, we would have to make some cuts to our lifestyle - but we can afford to and it wouldn't have a huge impact, whereas for others that are less well off, it may mean a choice between eating and heating.

I want my children to grow up in a fair society, where no child lives in poverty and everyone has access to healthcare and good education. And I am prepared to pay for it - because someone has to and I can afford to.

YANBU OP, but unfortunately the vast majority of high earners wont agree with you

What Jeffs said.

Sure, some people end up on a shit wage because they didn't get as much out of education for whatever reason, or because they have no contact with people who can inspire them or demonstrate what kinds of opportunities there might possibly be (if any).

And some people are driven and end up on a decent wage partly because of that.

But I actually wouldn't even be confident enough to suggest there was a correlation without seeing some studies, never mind causation.

OP- are you Jeremy Corbyn?

YABU.

Your friend already pays a higher % of tax because she earns more.

When you say higher earners should pay so you can have a normal life, what do you mean by 'normal life'?

Things like this really annoys me, there are low earners who work extremely hard and high earners who also work extremely hard. My husband paid around 50k in tax last year, works around 60 hours per week, works from home in the evenings and on nearly every holiday/day off he has. He also left school with no qualifications and his first job was as a sales assistant on extremely low pay. He has worked incredibly hard, moved to different areas of the country when there was no work and doesn't begrudge paying his taxes as he knows it's the right thing to do. What is a piss take is when people act like he doesn't do enough or pay enough to fund other people's lifestyle choices.

The amount of people we know that have said they can't work or increase their hours because they will be losing money due to a cut in benefits is ridiculous, so many times people say the high earners need to be doing more without realising how much they already do.

Oh FFS, get a grip. Your friend is already paying a massive amount of tax. Who do you think you are to suggest that she should pay even more to subsidise your lifestyle? You are the one who should consider yourself "lucky" that the state will support you by providing you with benefits. Other countries social welfare payments aren't as generous. Your friend no doubt earned her 6 figure salary through hard work and dedication, YABvvvvU and it is insulting that you think she should be grateful of how "lucky" she is.

So she can be criticised for being a high earner but she can't criticise back for being in benefits. Works both ways. Fwiw I'm not on a 6 figure salary and don't want to be - don't want that kind of stress.

I have received benefits too - in the form of maternity benefits.

Is this the only benefit you've received from the "tax pot"? Have you always had private medicine and education? Roads and railways? Police and fire services?