To be annoyed/hurt by my good friend and think high earners should be willing to pay more ?

[whatislife]

i have been lurking on MN for a long time and never posted. Decided to join today and thought I'd mark the occasion with a rant.
I got in an argument with my friend (2 days ago) and the anger re-appeared when she sent me a text this morning. This doesn't really matter though.

The argument started when she made a snarky comment about an old friend of ours (not very close to be honest). The woman had been complaining about money and started ranting about high earners, tax and all sorts. My friend , a very high earner (think 6 figures), kept quiet the whole while and then started talking about it to me. This is where she said something along the lines of 'No one forced her to messed around at school and screw her life up. Im not going to feel bad because I worked hard' and 'why should I pay more tax when I already pay a ridiculous amount and she doesn't pay any'. These comments really angered me because I am also a low earner and rely on benefits - she knows this ! So we got into an argument about tax and benefits (silly i know but personal comments were also made).

My question is ; AIBU to think my close friend (and high earners in general) should realise how lucky she is and be willing to pay more tax so people like me can also have a normal life?

I am seriously pissed off at people pretending that they only reason they got there was hard work and diligence and the rest of us are useless plebs

I'm right with you MrsDeVere

I love hearing millionaires talk about how hard they work and anyone can do it. Totally clueless, the capatilist system doesn't work like that. People that have done well usually like to think its down to their own merit!

As is not recognising one's own good fortune when sitting right in the middle of it, and recognising that if we want a functioning society, the rich need to pay more than the poor, both as a proportion and as an absolute.

Nobodies disagreeing with any of that, but apparently you have to also put up with non tax payers having a go at you and demanding even more of your wages as well.

The "rich" (vague, badly used term here) DO pay more more than the poor, both as a proportion and as an absolute. LOTS more. They don't need abuse for doing so, or for not volunteering to pay even more.

non tax payers

They don't exist.

CMYB, I haven't seen anyone being abused for not paying more tax?

Seen plenty of judgemental comments regarding low paid workers and their 'laziness' at school.....

This thread's been quite an eye-opener for me - I didn't realise how many high-earners silently look down their noses at the lower paid.

I pay a lot of income tax, and my company pays a lot of corporation tax. I am happy to do so.

But I know plenty of people who play the system at both ends; I know business people who have paid themselves a lower salary for a couple of years so that their kids get grants and bursuries for university; I know a teacher who has calculated a cut in hours that takes him on to basic rate tax and is completely topped up by tax credits, (lots of kids, partner is SAHM to teenagers); and my own sister has the hours versus benefits thing down to a fine art helped by an employer who is happy to let her choose her hours.

People who higher rate PAYE are a really easy target. There are plenty of other people working the system. It would be nice if some of the loopholes were closed and everyone paid their fair share. Sadly politicians, celebrities and the like do not set a very good example.

For a person with three children in private rented accommodation taking account of housing benefit and help with childcare:

Earnings 0 Tax -25719 CREDIT
Earnings 10k Tax -33221 CREDIT
Earnings 40k Tax -15300 CREDIT
Earnings 60k Tax 17800 Tax & NI paid 29%
Earnings 90k Tax 30473 Tax & NI paid 34%
Earnings 100k Tax 34673 Tax & NI paid 35%
Earnings 150k Tax 59913 Tax & NI paid 40%
Earnings 200k Tax 83413 Tax & NI paid 42%

Is this 'unfair', who is it unfair to ?

Nobodies disagreeing with any of that, but apparently you have to also put up with non tax payers having a go at you and demanding even more of your wages as well.

The "rich" (vague, badly used term here) DO pay more more than the poor, both as a proportion and as an absolute. LOTS more. They don't need abuse for doing so, or for not volunteering to pay even more.

Yes, did I dispute the fact that higher rate taxpayers (who are objectively richer than most, though we may not always feel like it) pay more, anywhere in my comments?

I fail to see the 'abuse' though, and it's a valid political/economic discussion about where contributions should come from should more be needed. Dressing that discussion up in a victim complex is pretty unhelpful.

You're acting as if nothing has been done to affect what's in the pockets of those on low or no pay, which is patently untrue. Between tax credit changes and VAT rises (which of course sees low earners paying proportionately more of their incomes), the hit has been in the wrong direction, in my view.

Whether there needs to be a hit of this speed and magnitude is another question altogether.

Confused I KNOW not all high-earners went to uni or look down their noses at people earning less. Did I say ALL??

Remortgaged house?? What is your point exactly though...you've confused me too?

It's quite a horrible thread, MrsDV.

I'm quite surprised we haven't got into 'you don't know how hard it is to survive on a high wage' yet.

Of course non tax payers exist.

How many hundreds of thousands do we have on JSA or IS. Both are non taxable and even if they were it's just the state taking their own money back. Any purchases made are made with state money so the individual isn't paying vat.

What jumps out at me there Corbyn is that a single parent would be as well off earning 10k as a TA, as she would as a primary head working long hours for 60k. She'd probably see more of her kids too. That can't be fair.

It's quite horrible to be told constantly that you are living the life of Riley as a higher tax earner when for many it is simply not true.

It doesn't sound like she is "lucky" tho it wasn't a lottery win. Sounds like she worked damn hard when it mattered and holds down a successful, and presumably high pressure career.

Jealousy is a horrible horrible emotion. We should all be very grateful for high earners as they pay shed loads of tax and contribute a lot more to society than they take. Most of us the tax we pay doesn't actually cover what the state spends on our healthcare/kids schooling/police service etc

Of course non tax payers exist.

Ah, those below the IT threshold get a refund of all the VAT they pay, do they? I stand corrected, I wasn't aware.

Yes yes Tinkly - higher rate PAYE are an easy target, but they are not the problem.

Also slightly concerned that some people feel tax is "punishment" for success - it's not, it's simply the price you pay to live in a civilised society with strong property rights and the rule of law that allow people to become successful (not to mention all the public infrastructure that we've all paid into). No-one is advocating a return to 97% rates or whatever hair-raising amount it used to be, but at the same time, it is only fair and right that people pay a larger amount of tax proportionately as they earn more.

I never understand these threads

Every single adult in this country could have an iq of 160

Have PHDs

Be prepared to work 100+ Hours a week

And you would still need someone to work a till, clean a toilet and wipe a bum...for minimum wage because thats usually what they pay

People in those jobs aren't lazy or stupid

It's easy ... for higher earners to sneer at lower earners and blame it on their lack of application/effort etc, but rarely actually that simple

That's perfectly true - though of course it's equally easy for those on lower wages to dismiss others' success as "just luck"

For those who blame a "poor background" for such a lot, it's maybe worth remembering the PP who mentioned her parents' example of poor qualification and income - and that seeing this spurred her on to do well for herself

And sorry, but the earlier comment "she'd still have plenty" just reminds me of all the threads about folk who borrow or demand money, simply because they consider themselves entitled to it. Surely not an attractive approach either ...

thehypocritesoaf

"It's quite horrible to be told constantly that you are living the life of Riley as a higher tax earner someone on any form of benefits when for many it is simply not true."

How about we all agree that assuming anything about a person can be shit and destructive?