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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be annoyed/hurt by my good friend and think high earners should be willing to pay more ?

628 replies

whatislife · 07/10/2015 16:09

i have been lurking on MN for a long time and never posted. Decided to join today and thought I'd mark the occasion with a rant.
I got in an argument with my friend (2 days ago) and the anger re-appeared when she sent me a text this morning. This doesn't really matter though.

The argument started when she made a snarky comment about an old friend of ours (not very close to be honest). The woman had been complaining about money and started ranting about high earners, tax and all sorts. My friend , a very high earner (think 6 figures), kept quiet the whole while and then started talking about it to me. This is where she said something along the lines of 'No one forced her to messed around at school and screw her life up. Im not going to feel bad because I worked hard' and 'why should I pay more tax when I already pay a ridiculous amount and she doesn't pay any'. These comments really angered me because I am also a low earner and rely on benefits - she knows this ! So we got into an argument about tax and benefits (silly i know but personal comments were also made).

My question is ; AIBU to think my close friend (and high earners in general) should realise how lucky she is and be willing to pay more tax so people like me can also have a normal life?

OP posts:
pinkfrocks · 07/10/2015 16:36

The point though elastamum is that even if more money was taken off you, it would not be enough to pay for 'poor people' to have a better life. There simply are not enough 'you' to do that. And all that would happen is that people would lose the incentive to work hard for £100K+ because they would lose so much in tax. I was alive during the 'brain drain' when Wilson et al put the top rate at 97% and it made no blinking difference to the poor.

BarbarianMum · 07/10/2015 16:40

Um, yes they do. In the UK lots of them. Education is free for a start, and compulsory. There is free (at the point of use) healthcare, free housing (a roof over your head at least) and starvation is virtually unknown.

AFewGoodWomen · 07/10/2015 16:40

I am a high earner and I don't begrudge a penny I pay in tax.
Just life, innit?

On the first 40k, tax is the same for everyone. So high earners only pay more on the portion of their salary that is above what most people in the UK earn.

If I was paying the higher band on the whole lot, then I'd be pissed off.

Alibabsandthe40Musketeers · 07/10/2015 16:40

Higher earners already pay huge amounts - if you include NI, the government takes over 55% of the salary of someone earning over £150k.

Whichever way you slice it, that is a horrible amount of money to have to hand over.

Alibabsandthe40Musketeers · 07/10/2015 16:41

Sorry I should say - salary earned over £150k.

Anotherusername1 · 07/10/2015 16:44

I have no problem paying taxes commensurate with my income. YANBU.

As someone said higher up, those in lower paid jobs work just as hard if not harder than those in higher paid jobs. And often harder.

And if you inherit or win money, that is totally down to luck. Or marrying someone rich so you can spend their money.

And I think doing well in life is down to luck too - lucking out on the brains, the drive, the general emotional intelligence to do well in the workplace (or select the rich partner). That doesn't mean that you could have wasted those talents, and hard work certainly does come into it.

But a feeling of there but for the grace of God would not go amiss.

Many of us are only an accident or illness or a bout of unemployment away from disaster and anyone could need help. Feeling smug because you have a six figure salary is not sensible.

Moln · 07/10/2015 16:44

By 'normal life' do you mean one with luxuries like hers?

Original poster
whatislife · 07/10/2015 16:46

Sorry,I did not explain it well. An old friend was ranting and then left. My friend then spoke to me about the old friend's comments. She didn't set out to attack me but I feel personally offended as I am in a similar situation as the old friend.

I don't think she owes me a living ! But I don't see how she can be upset about paying more in tax (she will still have plenty!) when she knows I am very worried about making ends meet, especially when I might be loosing even more money.

OP posts:
ConstanceMarkYaBitch · 07/10/2015 16:46

Her comments really angered you?
She pays many times the amount of tax you do, if you even pay any at all.
She gives to the pot, you take it.
And yet you're mad at her for defending herself from your other friends diatribe against her?

You're the lucky one, lucky you live in a country that essentially takes money from your hard working high earning friend and gives it to you. Apologise.

YABVU. And more than a bit of a dick if any of it actually happened which is unlikely

CookieMonsterIsOnADiet · 07/10/2015 16:46

Why should she have to pay more because she made good choices and used her education wisely? I doubt it was luck but more hard work and sacrifice.

The lucky one is you for having free healthcare, free education and benefits as you don't work enough to cover your living costs. All that comes from tax payers not a magic tree at number 10.

We have a skewed view of poverty in this county. It's always the states fault, never the individuals. Given that benefits had to be capped recently we absolutely don't have true poverty like other countries suffer from.

OhFuckWhatHaveIDone · 07/10/2015 16:48

She pays many times the amount of tax you do, if you even pay any at all.
She gives to the pot, you take it.

Everyone contributes to the pot.

And you sound very unpleasant.

ConstanceMarkYaBitch · 07/10/2015 16:49

As someone said higher up, those in lower paid jobs work just as hard if not harder than those in higher paid jobs. And often harder

Bollocks. Sometimes its true, for instance lower paid nurses work just as hard as higher paid consultants. But a lot of people in lower paid jobs don't work very hard at all. And many can only get lower paid jobs because they didn't work hard at getting better paid jobs.

Patapouf · 07/10/2015 16:50

Did this argument really take place OP?

ConstanceMarkYaBitch · 07/10/2015 16:50

And you sound very unpleasant.

Not nearly as unpleasant as OP and her friend, but thank you.

OhFuckWhatHaveIDone · 07/10/2015 16:50

The lucky one is you for having free healthcare, free education and benefits as you don't work enough to cover your living costs.

Where does the OP imply she doesn't work enough? She isn't paid enough. That's really, really not the same thing.

And it's depressing how much the 'it's down to hard work and sacrifice' lie gets peddled on Mumsnet.

jay55 · 07/10/2015 16:50

If all companies paid their fair share of corporation tax the issue wouldn't come up. High earners who pay their full taxes both businesses and individuals are more than doing their part.

It is those who evade taxes and don't put in what they should who need to step up.

BuggerLumpsAnnoyed · 07/10/2015 16:51

So freckledleopard is arguing against giving people the same opportunities she had. Interesting.

Pico2 · 07/10/2015 16:52

I think that the role of luck in life is subject to attribution bias. Those who are 'successful' attribute it to internal factors and those who aren't attribute it to external factors. So you are always going to get this effect.

I'm a relatively high earner (by no means 6 figures), but I think luck has played a huge part in where I am. I was born into a family that really values education. I enjoyed most school work, so it was easy for me to 'work hard' at school. I also found school work fairly easy

HaydeeofMonteCristo · 07/10/2015 16:53

I think she was unreasonable to come bitching to you about what other friend had said. Either she should tell said friend her views or say nothing.

But I think she is as entitled to her point of view as anyone. This is her point of view.

Pico2 · 07/10/2015 16:55

Sorry - posted half way through.

All of my success has come through luck in some sense. I don't think I work any harder than my friends. In fact I think I have it much easier than friends on NMW working night shifts so that they can care for their children in the day because childcare is so expensive. And they lose out on time seeing their DPs.

FreckledLeopard · 07/10/2015 16:56

I'm not arguing against it. At no point when I was on benefits did I think, "you know, high earners should pay even more tax and subsidise me". Frankly, the system at the time was ridiculous (and incentivised people to do the bare minimum in work in order to get the maximum in tax credits - there was no financial incentive to work harder or more hours).

Anyhow, the OP didn't seem to indicate that she was doing much to change her situation - is she studying, improving her skills, looking for a better paid job so she herself can pay more tax?

zebra22 · 07/10/2015 16:56

Wow ! Yes YABVU ! Why should she pay more tax to enable people like you to have a more normal life. Sounds like jealousy to me

Original poster
whatislife · 07/10/2015 16:57

I'm surprised at people asking if this conversation is real. Why would I lie about this of all things ??

Anyway, I guess I just think people should help each other out instead of sneering at mistakes made in the past - which is what I feel she is doing.

OP posts:
IceBeing · 07/10/2015 17:00

Anybody who thinks 'I work hard so I deserve my 6 figure salary' is a total idiot.

My cleaner works much harder than I do...and earns a 10th of what I do.

Hard work =/= paid well.

It is a mystery to me how anyone smart enough to earn a 6 figure salary can be too stupid to work this out.

JeffsanArsehole · 07/10/2015 17:00

BarbarianMum

People don't move far from their station in life because there is no such thing as equality of opportunity or equality of education.

Very few people break out of that mould and manage to get on in life. And it doesn't matter if it's down to their hard work as its statistically completely insignificant.

If you're poor, if your education wasn't great, if you grew up in poverty, if your parents have only ever worked in low wage jobs then you will likely remain so

Your brains won't save you, neither will working extra hard.

If you're born rich, you mostly get richer

If you're born poor you will get in real terms poorer over your life as the gap between rich and poor widens.