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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be annoyed/hurt by my good friend and think high earners should be willing to pay more ?

628 replies

whatislife · 07/10/2015 16:09

i have been lurking on MN for a long time and never posted. Decided to join today and thought I'd mark the occasion with a rant.
I got in an argument with my friend (2 days ago) and the anger re-appeared when she sent me a text this morning. This doesn't really matter though.

The argument started when she made a snarky comment about an old friend of ours (not very close to be honest). The woman had been complaining about money and started ranting about high earners, tax and all sorts. My friend , a very high earner (think 6 figures), kept quiet the whole while and then started talking about it to me. This is where she said something along the lines of 'No one forced her to messed around at school and screw her life up. Im not going to feel bad because I worked hard' and 'why should I pay more tax when I already pay a ridiculous amount and she doesn't pay any'. These comments really angered me because I am also a low earner and rely on benefits - she knows this ! So we got into an argument about tax and benefits (silly i know but personal comments were also made).

My question is ; AIBU to think my close friend (and high earners in general) should realise how lucky she is and be willing to pay more tax so people like me can also have a normal life?

OP posts:
TimeToMuskUp · 07/10/2015 18:24

DH is a higher rate tax payer, I do his accounts (as well as working full time as a TA, possibly the most dreadfully-paid of all jobs under the sun). I was once upon a time also a higher-rate payer but decided to bow out after the DCs as DH's wage is more than enough to support us, so my salary is essentially 'play' money.

I have no doubt that luck has got us to where we are. Hard work and a good work ethic has also helped, but without DH's family connections he wouldn't have had such an easy time setting up his own business and becoming so good at what he does. To imagine that no luck is involved seems a little blinkered.

Osolea · 07/10/2015 18:24

Wasonthelist, do you really think there's no relationship between effort made at school and future earning potential?

If there really were no relationship between the two things, then school would be a completely pointless waste of time for everyone. But it isn't.

thehypocritesoaf · 07/10/2015 18:28

Dh had a shit background, a shit education and now has a shit job - v long hours and zero power.

Ah but he is a higher earner so he should be thrilled to pay far more tax than he does.

Funnily enough he wouldn't be.

sparechange · 07/10/2015 18:35

MrsDV,
I know retail work can be hard. I did it for years, and bar work and temping and waitressing and reception work. I had periods in my 20s when I wasn't earning enough from my office job and had a weekend shop job. I'm not saying all lower paid jobs are without stressful moments but I don't believe they constitute 'hard work' that is on a par with much higher paid work.

It is a bit like saying primary school is as hard as doing a PhD because they both take the same hours each week and both have elements that can be stressful or challenging.

But back to my earlier post - these differences of opinion can never ever be resolved because there is no right or wrong definition of 'hard work' and therefore no categorical way of proving one way or another if higher paid jobs are disproportionately higher paid for the work required of them.

MrsDeVere · 07/10/2015 18:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thehypocritesoaf · 07/10/2015 18:36

There's nothing wrong with having a job rather than a career.
Who would argue that?

sparechange · 07/10/2015 18:38

Who ha said there is anything wrong with it? Confused

Equally, what is so wrong with having a career that it should attract a punitive tax to subsidise those who don't want one?

The subject of this thread is whether or not the OPS friend should be paying even more tax as 'punishment' for her good luck that has allowed her to earn more. It isn't about taking away OPs right to not chase a career.

Duckdeamon · 07/10/2015 18:44

Some economists argue that now and in the future there will be be more and more low paid jobs, few OK/good pay and a very few very well paid ones.

I would like to see businesses, especially multinationals, contributing more corporation tax.

If looking to cut the cost of the welfare system (rather than seeking to increase tax receipts or cuts in other areas of public spending, eg Trident) I would prefer to see cuts in non means tested benefits for older people (eg fuel allowance, bus passes, state pension for wealthy pensioners). That is politically difficult for Government because there are lots of older people and they vote.

RonaldMcDonald · 07/10/2015 18:46

I am a high earner and have been for a long time

I retrained from a highly paid career into another one. It took years of working two jobs juggling children and being crazily exhausted.

I am happy to pay my wedge of taxes and more if required

I was lucky enough to come from a family where we had relative stability and to go to a grammar school.
I have good self esteem and bags of confidence in my abilities

I know that many people have a completely chaotic childhood that prevents them from having any chance to do well in school and may never recover
People endure ill health and addiction
I also know that many people work hard and need a helping hand as they are carers or their life circs change
I know work is hard to find and skills become obsolete

I am happy to state that I have ridden my luck hard and would be happy to give more to help others

wasonthelist · 07/10/2015 18:46

Osolea

My point was that it's not a direct and incontroverible link between doing well at school and having a high income (or mucking about and having a low one). I chose my words carefully. Your response suggests that perhaps you think school's only function is preparation for work - if so, I profundly disagree.

It's easy (and a lazy cheap shot) for higher earners to sneer at lower earners and blame it on their lack of application/effort etc, but rarely actually that simple. Someone in the thread mentioned "there but for the grace" anyone who doesn't realise that is swallowing their own (or someone else's) propoganda.

OhFuckWhatHaveIDone · 07/10/2015 18:46

do you really think there's no relationship between effort made at school and future earning potential?

If there really were no relationship between the two things, then school would be a completely pointless waste of time for everyone.

Uhhhhhh... ah yes, that old saying - 'education for remuneration's sake'. Hmm

Do you seriously think that children are obliged to go to school so that they can increase their chances of nabbing one of the higher-earning roles in society?

Or are you making the facile argument that the greatest salaries are paid to those who contribute most to society, and education is enabling people to increase their contribution in that way? I.e. more education --> more money? I'm struggling here. Hmm

Kennington · 07/10/2015 18:47

This is not good is it? I worked hard and did well but I don't begrudge any tax paid! I was very privileged as a child. no major concerns, nor issues with family or money. As a result I was able to focus on working hard!
I had nought else to worry about.
If I hadn't had this I may have just done ok.
Parents provided a significant leg up - many don't have this privilege.

MrsDeVere · 07/10/2015 18:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Spectre8 · 07/10/2015 18:48

If your friend had to pay even more tax than she is already where is in the incentive to do that job? Why take on the additional responsibility and more often not longer hours for not much more in take home pay.

Mistigri · 07/10/2015 18:48

None of us pays "punitive" tax rates.

For much of Thatcher's first term, higher rate tax was 60%.

HappyGirlNow · 07/10/2015 18:49

Oh FFS

I am a higher rate tax payer, though under 3-figures though (unfortunately)

And the higher rate tax REALLY fucks me off. And I am a born and bred left wing Scot. Even if I pay the same % as lower earners I am paying much more.. Isn't that enough? I have little incentive to earn more as the tax will be unbelievable...

HappyGirlNow · 07/10/2015 18:51

Plus yes it fucks me off that i have worked so hard and been under lots of stress and I pay much more as a % than folk that ring groceries through tills.. Sorry but it does.

eedon · 07/10/2015 18:52

I know someone who quit a quite well paid job (not 6 figure) to go work in a bookshop. She's topped up with benefits and has a vastly better quality of life now with far less stress and wastes less money so financially she's about the same. Swapped a two hour commute and evening of working for A ten minutes walk and zero time at home working.

Mistigri · 07/10/2015 18:52

MrsdeVere I am totally with you on not understanding the disdain people have for those working low wage jobs. In our old age many of us will come to depend in them. Let us hope they have more respect for us than we do for them.

This thread is so thoroughly depressing - it pretty much proves that the coalition managed to definitively tear up the social contract, something even thatcher didn't manage.

amicissimma · 07/10/2015 18:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HappyGirlNow · 07/10/2015 18:55

eedon 'topped up with benefits' says it all...

If I was on 20% tax then I would still pay a hell of a lot more than someone on £20k - isn't that enough??! Fucks me right off.

eedon · 07/10/2015 18:57

I agree HappyGirlNow so would my friend that's doing it, she thinks the system is silly but is making the most of it. Can't blame her, especially as anyone under 40 will probably not get a state pension and final sallery pensions were closed years ago to new entrants.

Osolea · 07/10/2015 19:02

Your response suggests that perhaps you think school's only function is preparation for work - if so, I profundly disagree.

No, I don't think school's only function is to prepare people for work, far from it. But it's a fact that people need to work to support themselves through life, and that is something that will be easier to do if they have a good education.

Really what I object to is fit and healthy people thinking that they are owed a living off the back of other people's work.

FifteenFortyNine · 07/10/2015 19:03

People on both sides are exactly the same, money-grabbing soulless monsters unwilling to help those in need. How dare you all. Honestly.

muminthecity · 07/10/2015 19:03

Having a higher wage doesn't mean you work harder or tried harder at school. Joey Essex probably earns 100 times what I do, but I very much doubt he works harder or made more effort in school than I did. A soldier on the front line in Afghanistan has a much harder job than my friend who is a PA in the city but earns a good bit less.