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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be annoyed/hurt by my good friend and think high earners should be willing to pay more ?

628 replies

whatislife · 07/10/2015 16:09

i have been lurking on MN for a long time and never posted. Decided to join today and thought I'd mark the occasion with a rant.
I got in an argument with my friend (2 days ago) and the anger re-appeared when she sent me a text this morning. This doesn't really matter though.

The argument started when she made a snarky comment about an old friend of ours (not very close to be honest). The woman had been complaining about money and started ranting about high earners, tax and all sorts. My friend , a very high earner (think 6 figures), kept quiet the whole while and then started talking about it to me. This is where she said something along the lines of 'No one forced her to messed around at school and screw her life up. Im not going to feel bad because I worked hard' and 'why should I pay more tax when I already pay a ridiculous amount and she doesn't pay any'. These comments really angered me because I am also a low earner and rely on benefits - she knows this ! So we got into an argument about tax and benefits (silly i know but personal comments were also made).

My question is ; AIBU to think my close friend (and high earners in general) should realise how lucky she is and be willing to pay more tax so people like me can also have a normal life?

OP posts:
JassyRadlett · 08/10/2015 00:04

Tinky - tbh I find a decent stir fry takes only a few minutes longer than chucking a ready meal in the microwave, and is tastier and healthier. Now I have kids (well, one - the second is due any day), DH and I batch cook a lot when we have time. Making ten servings takes no longer than making three. Pretty common among most of my friends with similar sorts of jobs.

Salene · 08/10/2015 00:04

John I have to laugh at the ready meals bit

My husband would cut his arm off when at work for a ready meal of any kind

Instead of the boiled whole fish heads, and guts he gets served on a plate

A ready meal would be like a little piece of heaven

Salene · 08/10/2015 00:08

Icrackedup that is not possible..??

There is a loophole if you work on a boat you can somehow pay less tax but not a oil rig

I too used to work offshore and got stung with 45% tax.

Doesn't matter if it's uk waters or international waters of your reside in the UK you pay full tax unless your on home for less than 90 days a year and can prove you have no ties to the UK.

Offshore workers work equal time so home for 6 months of the year

JassyRadlett · 08/10/2015 00:09

Scremersford, I've realised it was my response to this comment that may have elicited your post directed at me:

who instead should be happy to trade their years of graft and hard work for being limitless sources of funding for others.

My 'sigh' was at the suggestion, yet again on this thread, that there is a straight dichotomy: that years of graft and hard work will be rewarded with high salaries, and that those who receive taxpayer support (the 'others' in your post) may not have worked equally hard and with equal dedication, but without the financial compensation.

If that's not what you meant, then I apologise.

Salene · 08/10/2015 00:09

Aargh sorry about errors , stupid phone

If you reside

You are not home

pieceofpurplesky · 08/10/2015 00:09

Pirate I can imagine! Carers get nowhere near enough.
As for cash rich time poor argument. I am a single mum and I high school English teacher .... So not rich and have no time!

JohnCusacksWife · 08/10/2015 00:11

Tinkly, you keep missing the salient point. These are choices. To suggest that having a well paid job comes with these "conditions" is just wrong. I have a well paid, professional job. But I've yet to feel compelled to go out for expensive coffees, socialise when I don't want to or eat ready meals. To try to garner sympathy for the well waged with the sort of arguments you're putting forward is destined to end in failure.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 08/10/2015 00:11

Oh I don't work out of the home any more. Those days are thankfully behind me. I have my own business, wear what I like and drink my own coffee in my own kitchen.Smile

Permanentlyexhausted · 08/10/2015 00:12

There are definitely costs associated with working, and they are higher, the more prestigious your job. It is disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

Tosh! I have a reasonably well-paid professional career. DH currently works in a temporary role on an assembly line at not much more than minimum wage. He's not the one enjoying a free meal every day, or able buy coffee on expenses. I get all sorts of other perks too. He gets to go to required medicals in his own time at his own expense. He gets to provide his own safety boots and work clothes which are very likely to get worn and damaged.

Of course, not everyone is in my position, or in his, but you shouldn't assume your experience is universal any more than mine is.

Oh, did I mention he also works more hours than I do?

TinklyLittleLaugh · 08/10/2015 00:27

Well I didn't claim my experience was universal, but I think it is more common than free meals and perks. I said, "Working is often more expensive than staying at home," which I think is largely true. And I illustrated my point from my experiences working long hours in a, fairly cut throat, office environment.

Pico2 · 08/10/2015 00:35

Why is it such a leap of imagination for some people to contemplate what it is like to live a different life?

My heart obviously goes out to the well paid and their enforced Starbucks regime. In contrast, those care-workers on NMW on a night shift doing intimate care for the elderly should be grateful for what crumbs fall to them from the table as they don't know what hard work is like.

LyndaNotLinda · 08/10/2015 00:37

Gullible in thinking that if you work hard, then you won't ever know poverty. It's a fiction

OhFuckWhatHaveIDone · 08/10/2015 00:55

Everyone benefits from services provided by the lower paid though, not just higher rate taxpayers. I'm not saying that wealthier people shouldn't pay more because clearly they should, but I dint think it's fair to say that they benefit from normal society more than anyone else.

You seem to be missing the point, though, that anyone earning their obscenely high salary off the back of profits produced by a business is mostly claiming the fruits of others' labour. Others are being paid less than the value of their labour so that the higher earners can cream it off for themselves.

Hamishandthefoxes · 08/10/2015 06:30

Oh fuck, that may apply to some of the 300,000 who earn over £150,000, but not most higher rate taxpayers where the band starts at around £50k.

While at that point you're earning a very good salary, you will be an employee, quite possibly without managerial responsibility if you're in a professional job and on paye.

The 'exploiting the workers' money in my view is more of an issue for the chief execs of fste 100 companies or large scale btl landlords not really defined by being a higher rate taxpayer.

Aeroflotgirl · 08/10/2015 07:29

I know hamish, dh is a "high rate" tax payer, and earns 55k, before tax, he is tax nearly half his earnings, op you want him to be taxed more Hmm, he has a family to provide for first, not all the country and his wife!

BoboChic · 08/10/2015 07:38

Same old, same old...

People who don't work hard and whose circumstances are difficult claiming that people who work hard but whose circumstances are better "are lucky" and owe the less hard working a living.

Runningupthathill82 · 08/10/2015 08:28

Bobo, there is a lot of luck involved in having a highly paid job. Hard work, yes, but luck as well. And that luck is with you from birth.

It's luck that means you have parents who read to you, who value education, who are able to provide you with the materials you need (from a dry house with working electricity, through to a computer) to do well at school.

It's luck that would give you people in your life to look up to and mimic, people who can give you tips, financial back-up, work experience, help with form-filling and job applications. People who can drive you to uni open days or pay for the train fare, so you can apply somewhere having seen it, rather than casting a punt on somewhere you don't know and have never been. These things aren't essential, but they help.

I was the first person in my family to go to university. That took a lot of hard work. But Oxbridge? No chance. My school and my family didn't comprehend the applying-to-different colleges thing til it was too late. Yes I could've found out and done it all myself. But at 17 and working 6 days a week, plus school, while looking after younger siblings for your mother who's working two jobs, it's somewhat harder to get your head round complex university admissions than it is if you can concentrate solely on your education, and your teachers or parents can give you tips with the forms.

I did fine at uni, got a 2:1 (and yes, worked 20 hours a week in a shop throughout) and got a job straight afterwards, to fund me while I did unpaid work experience in my chosen career.

I've since paid my way through a postgrad. I was lucky enough to get a loan from the bank and lucky enough to have been of good enough health to work evenings and weekends to fund that MA while studying full time at a university a two-hour daily commute away.

Now, a decade on, i do well. I love my job and I earn a good salary, above the national average.

But if I had worked harder could i have been earning 100k, or indeed 60k, instead of 30k? Er, no. I worked my arse off and still do. But starting points are not the same for everyone, opportunities are not the same for everyone.

I knew not one person in my industry or anything even remotely like it - my family mostly work in factories, on the shop floor. I was lucky enough to be taught a good work ethic - but now, I'm surrounded by people who waltzed into internships at 18 because their parents knew the right people.

Yes, they work hard, but people around them were working hard for them too.

Finally, Tinkly's shite about the hard working having higher overheads really sticks in my craw. These things are choices. Being broke takes away your choices.

I'm not there now, but I've been in a place where my DS couldn't have Christmas presents, where we couldn't put the heating on, and where I had to choose between petrol and food. At that point I was working a 50-hr week in a stressful and high-pressure job, which I'd had to return to even though I had a four month old, as my mat pay was so bad.

I have no sympathy for the person who "has" to buy a Starbucks or who "has" to buy a ready meal, when so many thousands of equally hard workers go without coffee and exist off toast.

BoboChic · 08/10/2015 08:31

Running - your arguments are simplistic and to deny the very real issue of overheads/costs of working for second earners and the choice polarities they imply is deeply mean-spirited.

Salene · 08/10/2015 08:32

Running not everyone who earns 6 figures has done well at school and onto further education

My husband left school at 15 with no qualifications and was sent to sea on a trawler by his father.

He earns over 6 figures. Nothing to do with luck. Pure hard graft has gone him where he is today.

HappyGirlNow · 08/10/2015 08:50

saucony you really have too much time on your hands. Maybe you should use that time to concentrate on your career rather than upload stupid pictures to the internet you'd get on better... Just a thought.... Grin

TheSwallowingHandmaiden · 08/10/2015 09:03

Saucony really, really does have too much time on her hands.

thehypocritesoaf · 08/10/2015 09:03

People who have made money through property - tick- you're welcome - you can join the comfortable lives club.

People who have inherited wealth- tick - you're in. Well done you.

People who only have their jobs to rely on- you lucky fuckers- why don't you fuck off and support the rest of the country.

JassyRadlett · 08/10/2015 09:05

Aeroflot, if nearly half his earnings are going to HMRC he needs to check his tax banding.

On £55k, he should be taking home £39k of it.

celtictoast · 08/10/2015 09:10

dh is a "high rate" tax payer, and earns 55k, before tax, he is tax nearly half his earnings

He'll be taxed 40% on what he earns above £42,386, so that's 40% on just £12,614 of his earnings. For the remaining £42,386 he'll be paying 20% or less.

celtictoast · 08/10/2015 09:13

People who don't work hard and whose circumstances are difficult claiming that people who work hard but whose circumstances are better "are lucky" and owe the less hard working a living.

And people who do work hard and whose circumstances are difficult are saying that people who work equally hard but earn four times as much are both hard working AND lucky and shouldn't claim they are working harder than everyone else.