Holidays without children

[PIPPA74]

I have been separated from my X for 7 years and have shared contact of our children.

I am planning 2 holidays next year, the first with my current partner of 6 years and our son and my two daughters from my previous marriage.

The girls are then going away with my X and new spouse. While they are away I am planning on going away with my partner and my son.

My X has texted going crazy because I am treating my girls unfairly and that i should not have a holiday with my son and partner unless i take the girls as I am apparently favouring my son over them.

I have argued that while my girls have two families and therefore half of the things they do is with one family while half is done with the other. My son however just has us and so all the things he does are with us. The girls will have one holiday with me and one with their other family and my son will have one holiday with his sisters and one holiday with us so they have all had two breaks with their families.

My X is saying the girls are really upset and and crying and i feel awful but they go away as a couple numerous times without any of the children which they say is ok because they are not favouring one over the other. The girls are also upset when they do this as they state they feel like they are being dumped.

I feel really bad that I am apparently upsetting the girls but my X is so adamant that what I am doing is really awful and is damaging my girls that i am considering just not going on the 2nd holiday.

This is obviously causing issues with my partner who says they have been dictating to us for 6 years and that they have no right to dictate to us what we do and that this will mean our son always has less than the girls as they will always go away with their mum and us while he does not get that opportunity of a second break.

So, I would really appreciate some honest opinions as to whether I am being unreasonable, is my X right that i should never go away with my partner and our son as it is unfair on the girls. Also am i explaining it fairly to the girls?

I think this was so much more simple when I was a kid and we couldnt afford any holidays ha ha #firstworldproblems

"This is obviously causing issues with my partner who says they have been dictating to us for 6 years and that they have no right to dictate to us what we do and that this will mean our son always has less than the girls as they will always go away with their mum and us while he does not get that opportunity of a second break"

Apologies, I read "they" and assumed the dd's rather than "she" (the ex)

I think the last highlighted bit is probably the crux of the matter; the OP's DP feels that the dd's have "one-up" on their ds.

I read it as the ex dictating not the dc.
Trying to even things up between households is causing this problem, op dp is trying to make sure her ds doesn't lose out, not unreasonable. Op ex is also trying to make sure her dds are not left out or hurt by arrangements. Trying to make things equal won't work because they are in two families with different parents.
Nobody should be dictating what you do whilst they are on holiday. Is there any chance you could go away just with your dds?

The OP's partner claims that the children have been dictating to them for 6 years.

It's not the children dictating, it's the ex.

I suspect that the OP's partner wants a "family" holiday

She's going on a family holiday planned entirely around what her two step daughters want and that won't really suit her son at all.

She's a mother of one 3 year old, why shouldn't she get to take him away on holiday with his father?

That's the nature of a blended family - you have one parent with 3 children and another parent with only one child.

You have a family that sometimes has 5 people and sometimes has 3.

The lives of the 3 don't stop when the 2 are absent.

I would be quite concerned about children of 12 and 8 who get so worked up about their parents doing things without them.

I haven't read this whole thread but I remember my Dad doing this - he remarried and had two more kids (my sisters) and they used to go on annual family holidays together with my stepmum to which I was never invited. It caused a lot of hurt and resentment, even though we have a better relationship now I still feel like the outsider, to be honest.

Bath - do you actually have stepchildren? You don't seem to regard blended as being inclusive.
I regard myself as a mother of 4, despite having only given birth to 1 of them. I'm not saying that is the hard and fast rule, but as a stepmother and a stepchild I am very aware of the dynamic from both the parental angle and the child's angle. It would be wonderful if children weren't as egocentric as they are, but simply banging on about what they should and shouldn't feel will not make it so!
Unless one has first hand experience of being a child in a blended family, it is impossible to make assumptions about what they do and don't (or should and shouldn't) feel about the situation.
Parents move on and start new families, the children from the original relationship often feel on the edge of these families and included in neither.

Take your son - you are being completey fair. If your girls werent going away with their Dad at the same time then it wouldn't be but why should your son miss out.
It sounds like ex n partner are definitely encouraging this. Why are they offering to pay as the girls couldn't go anyway. I can see why the girls might be a bit miffed - they are kids but it can a be explained to them. Good luck.

I'm sorry but I think your girls are being really selfish! They are happy to go away with their father and for you to go away with your husband, as long as their brother stays at home with grandparents?!

I think I'd be having a chat about that!

My DC had a long holiday with their dad and stepsister in the Summer but as her mum booked the holidays she got lots of trips with her mum and my ex that my kids missed out on and the benefit of ex-DH being a high earner (paid little maintenance).Sometimes our only holiday was a solemnly a caravan. They were jealous sometimes but learnt to deal with it. I tried never to bad mouth their dad whatever I thought. As adults they still have a good relationship with him and stepsister. They will be safe and having a good time so take your holiday. ( oh and shock horror I sometimes went abroad with my girlfriends while they were,away with ex-DH!)

Solemnly?? Only!

I'm clearly in a minority here, but I can see why your DDs may feel left out. It could easily feel to them that as soon as they are out of the way, you are off on holiday with your 'new' family.

And to those who are saying that a 12 year old girl should be able to understand, I disagree. Many 12 year old girls are absolutely full of insecurities, and this kind of situation probably won't help.

I know it's a difficult situation, but I do think that if you go on holiday with some of the children, you need to take all of them. If that means some of them get 'extra' holidays, so be it. At least YOU are treating all your children the same .

Is it just being "on holiday" that makes this something stropping children should be indulged in?

Is it being away overnight that's the problem?

What types of fun are the 3 members of the family allowed to have when the important two are elsewhere having other fun?

Perhaps they should make sure not to do anything fun at all unless all are present.

That's totally normal for families, isn't it?

It's very healthy to teach children that they should feel left out if anyone ever does anything fun when they are busy.

That will lead to very emotionally healthy adolescents.

Looking over your shoulder to see what someone else is getting and stropping about it is a great life skill.

Bath - comparing a holiday to a day trip or night away is rather disingenuous

Whilst I agree that the X is clearly fueling the fire here and I do have sympathy with the OP, the fact remains that his 2 DDs are feeling insecure and pushed out .....Surely in that position you would be looking for ways to make them feel more secure & included and ensuring they can be included in all family holidays seems like the obvious answer!

Sandgrown- are you saying the dsm and dsd had separate day trips on the holiday or separate at other times?
The former I agree would be a very strange way of having a family holiday, but not dissimilar to the holiday ops ds will be getting with his older sisters having day trips that suit their needs and not fitting with his.
If the latter I can't really see the problem with having day trips when other kids are not there. I take my ds on lots of day trips over the summer without dss. I work hard all year and yes I do benefit from my dh being a high earner. Hardly the exs business what our household spend out money on.

Perhaps they should make sure not to do anything fun at all unless all are present

Nobody has said the family should sit at home twiddling their thumbs while the girls are away. But a holiday abroad with just some of the family is more than just a fun thing to do, it's a major part of a families time together, usually the only time most families get to spend 24/7 together with no distractions of work/school/clubs etc. So I can see how the girls could feel left out.

And to call the girls stroppy and indulged is harsh IMO. We don't know the first thing about them, and how they feel about their family dynamics generally.

Blended families are hard work, they take more effort than a single family to get the balance right. I can certainly see how Taking only one of three children away with you may cause problems.

Parents move on and start new families, the children from the original relationship often feel on the edge of these families and included in neither.

And It sounds like ex n partner are definitely encouraging this. Why are they offering to pay as the girls couldn't go anyway.

I feel sorry for the poor girls as it does sound like they don't feel completely included in either family. Their mum and her DP have offered to pay for them to go with you on the second holiday rather than with them, so it sounds as if they'd also rather go away on their own.

OP, I don't think you've done anything wrong per se, but it does seem to me like the girls are a bit "piggy in the middle"

Not disingenuous at all.

What is the definition of a holiday?

Lots of people take time off work, stay at home and do loads of local day trips.

Going away for a night could be a holiday. A weekend away is a holiday.

Not having to go to school even when the parents have to work is holidays.

In my life holiday is a state of mind, not a location or activity.

Maybe it's being the child of a teacher? I don't know.

But these girls are going on the family holiday.

It is not good for anyone to indulge them in feeling "left out" because people continue to do fun things when they are not there.

Part of being a parent is teaching your children not to be jealous of others, to live their own lives well and be happy when good things happen to other people.

The idea that it is wrong for their little brother to go away with his parents when they are away with their mother is really fucked up.

You can stop feeling "pushed out" without managing to impose your will on 3 people when you are not around.

But a holiday abroad with just some of the family is more than just a fun thing to do, it's a major part of a families time together, usually the only time most families get to spend 24/7 together with no distractions of work/school/clubs etc.

But they are going on the big family holiday spending time 24/7 doing stuff together.

As far as I can see the only issue with this is that people think abroad = proper holiday and UK = shit holiday.

If they were taking the girls on a crap cheapo El Dorado package and spending all their time and money doing amazing stuff in the UK with their son, everyone would think that was fine.

Oh, I've been hoping this thread would pop back up, I have been thinking about you all.

I haven't read the rest of the posts since the other day (will try to later, have to go out shortly), but I was thinking, if you are going at the same time as exP, can you tell your daughters they have a choice of going with one (you) or the other (exP)?

Interesting one. I can see why your dds might feel a bit upset but given their ages I would expect that, with an explanation, they should be able to see why you wish to do this. I agree with a pp - it is probably the fact that your ex is framing it as unacceptable that is making them feel this way.

To me the solution is simple. The only way to be truly and completely fair is to book to go to the same place as your ex, the same week she is taking your dds.........I wonder how your ex would react to that! She is very clear it is an issue of fairness - and you couldn't be fairer than that solution. If she disagrees then I'd say it is an indication of her trying to paint you as the bad guy.

I am being slightly tongue in check and of course it might massively backfire but I'd say its worth the risk!!!!

Taking the girls on both holidays is hardly fair on ops dp, ex gets another holiday kid free and she gets no time but two holidays with kids that are not her own, as much as you can love and care for step kids it is not the same dynamic when they are there. Why shouldn't ds get a holiday suited to his needs? Going the same place an equally ridiculous suggestion, judging by this thread relations not being completely amicable.

Taking the girls on both holidays is hardly fair on ops dp, ex gets another holiday kid free and she gets no time but two holidays with kids that are not her own, as much as you can love and care for step kids it is not the same dynamic when they are there. Why shouldn't ds get a holiday suited to his needs? Going the same place an equally ridiculous suggestion, judging by this thread relations not being completely amicable.

^ This is the sentiment that is often present over in the step parenting board, ie that the NR step children spoil the dynamic of the "new" family.

It is ridiculous to say that the OP's ds needs an extra holiday to equalize the one that the dd's had with their DM. The ds shares ONE parent with his sisters, he has nothing to do with the other household. The dd's have two homes (not by choice I would think) so does that mean that the ds should have another house to make it fair? It seems all of this fairness talk is just a mask/guise to have family time excluding the step children.

It is up to OP to make sure that HE treats all three of his children fairly. Surely if the ds goes on both holidays then that is unfair as he went x2 with his father, whereas the dd's only went once with dad? What OP's partner does/spends with regards to their son is entirely up to her and should not enter into the equation (although it would be conducive for good relations if she did not flaunt any extra's that ds got in their presence)

OP I never actually thought you were that unreasonable to go on holiday at the same time as the dd's, it was the fact that you purposely wanted to spend time alone with "new" family that made me feel you are unreasonable.

It is a very fine ballance though between treating all the children the same and ending up with very materialistic step children as they have been treated the same. I speak frim experience. The dsc are always going to have a different experience and of course they are going to have 2 sets of main christmas presents and probably 2 holidays a year. But somehow all that materialistic gain has to be tempered so that they don't become spoilt. I don't have any answers here. Dss went through a stage of being very materialistic. Im not sure it helped that he had double what all his brothers and sisters had. It may not haveare any difference who knows and it's academic now as hes a very reasonable adult now
I do think ops ex is setting them all up for significant problems with her attitude though.

Children do spoil the dynamic the other children have with each other/their parents.

That's family life.

If I had three children of those ages and genders I would certainly want to spend time with the bigger two on my own.

It's normally easier (as it is here) to contrive time alone with a youngest child, because they have less of their own stuff going on.

Would it be unfair for the girls' Dad to take just them away for a weekend of camping and kayaking?

If not, then it is not unfair for him and his wife to take their 3 year old away on a package holiday, which can be an ideal way to relax when you have a small child.

Change not spoil. Taking the girls on a separate weekend just with dad is the only really fair solution I can see. No point trying to even things up between two households. Dad should treat all his kids fairly and also look after his dp interests.

The idea that it is wrong for their little brother to go away with his parents when they are away with their mother is really fucked up

Yes yes yes ^^

And as someone else pointed out up thread, the girls are happy for their brother to stay at home with grandparents while they go on holiday with their mum, and the parents go on holiday on their own. The only one who loses out in that situation is the OP's DS. how is that fair?

The girls will be getting a holiday with their father in the future. For now they are having a holiday with their mum. Their little brother is having a holiday with his mum and dad on the same dates- all sounds fair to me. I'm sorry but I don't feel sorry for them at all.