Holidays without children

[PIPPA74]

I have been separated from my X for 7 years and have shared contact of our children.

I am planning 2 holidays next year, the first with my current partner of 6 years and our son and my two daughters from my previous marriage.

The girls are then going away with my X and new spouse. While they are away I am planning on going away with my partner and my son.

My X has texted going crazy because I am treating my girls unfairly and that i should not have a holiday with my son and partner unless i take the girls as I am apparently favouring my son over them.

I have argued that while my girls have two families and therefore half of the things they do is with one family while half is done with the other. My son however just has us and so all the things he does are with us. The girls will have one holiday with me and one with their other family and my son will have one holiday with his sisters and one holiday with us so they have all had two breaks with their families.

My X is saying the girls are really upset and and crying and i feel awful but they go away as a couple numerous times without any of the children which they say is ok because they are not favouring one over the other. The girls are also upset when they do this as they state they feel like they are being dumped.

I feel really bad that I am apparently upsetting the girls but my X is so adamant that what I am doing is really awful and is damaging my girls that i am considering just not going on the 2nd holiday.

This is obviously causing issues with my partner who says they have been dictating to us for 6 years and that they have no right to dictate to us what we do and that this will mean our son always has less than the girls as they will always go away with their mum and us while he does not get that opportunity of a second break.

So, I would really appreciate some honest opinions as to whether I am being unreasonable, is my X right that i should never go away with my partner and our son as it is unfair on the girls. Also am i explaining it fairly to the girls?

I think this was so much more simple when I was a kid and we couldnt afford any holidays ha ha #firstworldproblems

Although the OP's posts have been carefully phrased, I think he is the dad and it is his ex-wife who is kicking off.

Hope that won't alter people's stance on this one.

Makes no difference to me whether the OP is a man or woman. The ex is a knob and the DD's spoilt.

Fair comment. I did offer the girls a choice of where we went, a beach holiday abroad or a UK holiday where they got to choose loads of activities from around the UK and we would do a uk based holiday (my thoughts being they are doing a beach hol with my x and always do so would maybe be interesting to do something different.)

They chose the UK holiday and have been scouring the web to find things to do. This has ended up with us travelling all over from a huge indoor waterpark in Blackpool to cable cars in Wales to legoland, whipsnade safari park, white water rafting etc. The cost is roughly the same but with taking out the flight costs we can actually do more here than we would sat by a pool in Spain.

My x has slaughtered me for this as apparently its them getting a cheapie in the uk and we would be going away abroad with my son. I never mentioned where we were planning with my son, they have just made an assumption we were going abroad.

For them unless you get on a plane its not a "proper" holiday. I am a bit of an outdoor pursuits and adventure nut and would love them to see what our own country has to offer and that a holiday can mean more than Flight, pool, English brekkie in an English pub in a Spanish town etc. Nothing wrong with that, i have done it many times and it is great fun but thought it would be fun to offer them the option and let them do the planning. They have loved doing it but according to my X are telling them that they hate the idea and want to on a beach hol. I genuinly couldnt care less where we go tbh, there is no cost difference, it was the girls who decided.

What is really funny (or not) is that last year, when we couldnt afford to go then nobody got upset. I didnt get blamed for anything, nobody got angry, you have to start wondering if it is worth the hassle tbh.

I find it interesting that every single poster so far has referred to "X" as a "he" and X's partner as "stepmum" when OP has stated several times that "X" is the girl's mum and that "X" refers to OP as a "prick" and a "knob"... OP am I right that you're the girls' Dad (however if so then your nickname is misleading so it's of course also possible that OP is their "other mum")? Not that this should make a difference, and purely from what you've described I don't think YABU - but it does seem to make a difference on this forum! There has been another similar thread from the other side this week where the NR Dad had booked a skiing holiday only for his "new" family, excluding his son, and there was general consensus that this was vvU indeed, even though the son was going to go on a holiday with his mum later in the year and (if I remember correctly) also with the Dad and "new" family on a different occasion.

OP, how often are the girls with you and your new partner? Do they spend as much time with you as with their mum? If you only see them on weekends and during holidays then I can understand if they feel excluded if you book a holiday just for your "new" family - and especially if this is a particularly nice holiday. Their mum's DP's suggestion that it's a question of cost makes me wonder if this is a "better" holiday than the one that you're also taking the girls on?

Ideally you should maybe also try to go away somewhere special with just your daughters, without your DP or their younger brother. Not necessarily a long holiday but maybe a special Dad-Daughters bonding weekend, doing something that they would really enjoy (concert, theatre, theme park...).

Was too slow - cross posted with Clam. I still think that whether OP is RP or not will make a difference to how badly the girls feel excluded.

Guilty as charged, clearly im not very good at this.

I wanted this issue to be looked upon on its merits without people making assumptions because i am a dad. Apologies if anyone feels misled but i know it can be hard to look at things objectively if you have had a negative experience in their past. I genuinely wanted to know what peoples opinions of this would be so thought it important to neutralize the gender issue. Hope nobody minds too much

I disagree, I think the more you pander to these 'entitled' girls the worse it will get.

YANBU and in future I wouldn't let your ex know what your plans are with regards to your new partner and DS. It's frankly none of her business.

PIPPA74

My opinion remains the same, I just assumed you was a woman from your name once again remembering was ASSUME does

Btw, the 'disagree' was to Samiam, not you OP.

Oops, also x-posted with OP. Did you really offer them a detailed choice between the two holidays and they chose the UK? It doesn't sound as if you explained to them what the other option was since you say that you never even mentioned where you were going with your son? I think this may be the problem - you haven't really involved them in the decision so they didn't have full visibility. Unfortunately I think they will feel excluded from your new family unit as a result.

And no, your gender doesn't matter at all, but if you aren't the RP (or shared residence) AND have another child with your new DP then I think you need to tread particularly carefully. I don't think you've set out to treat your girls unfairly but I don't think they're being entitled brats either - just sad about the whole situation and the family unit that they're missing out on.

This is sort of why i neutralized the gender issue or tried to (badly) as straight away we are now talking about contact time etc rather than the issue.

I did have all my kids 50/50 shared care for the first two years after our separation, my X unilaterally decided to change that essentially as wanted more maintenance money. I took her to court and she agreed could go back to 50/50 as the judge had said they had never known anything else so there was no reason to change (stupidly i agreed to this rather than insisting on a court order.)

A few weeks later she did it again, i had no money left to fight her and simply had no fight left in me as was suffering from severe depression. I do also have a son with her who because of his age decided he didnt want to stay with me at all once my son was born, because of his age the court allowed him to make this choice. He now doesnt see me at all although the last time we spoke he told me the only thing I could have done to stop this happening was to have not got with my new partner (a year after their mother left me) and not had my son with her.

I now have my daughters one midweek night and one weekend. Actually i have my eldest 3 nights as she dances at my partners dance school then stays with us an extra night. I still pay the extra night in terms of maintenance because if the maintenance is reduced for that extra night i have her then she has been told she will not be allowed to come.

My x has also changed my eldest sons school without even telling me and even told my daughters "not to tell" as i would go mad apparently. When i eventually let her know that i knew (a couple of months later) she told me it was none of my business as my son had chosen not to have contact with me.

Im sure she would see things from a very different light and will undoubtedly give her own catalogue of things i have done, i guess thats largely standard in situations like this.

I hope these things do not skew the advice in terms of the issue.

Any 12yo and even an 8yo should be able to understand "you're getting two holidays and your brother is having two holidays, end of conversation"

Unless you're taking the brother to Disneyland and they're getting two camping trips in Devon?

Totally agree your ex is stoking them up to believe they're hard done by. They will seize on this (as most kids would) to try and get a third holiday.

If the ex has offered the money I don't really know what you can do now. Either call his bluff and ask for the money upfront, inc extra spending money. Or tell the girls it's all booked and there's no more space in the plane /hotel while bollocking your ex for overstepping the line

Yes i offered them a free choice of uk holiday or beach holiday, was totally upfront about it. I genuinely have no idea where we are going with my son or ironically if we will even be able to afford to go. If we can it will be either a cheapie in spain or uk based, exactly the option that the girls had. I would love to be able to do the Bahamas twice but sadly there is never likely to be that option ha ha.

Perhaps i was stupid in doing this and should have just booked a Spanish holiday for us all then a similar one with my partner and son. I just thought it might be great fun to plan it in a way that you cant really do when you go on a package holiday which normally centres around a resort with the odd bus trip to a water park etc.

Have read the other threads now. Sounds fine to me. Girls had an option of where to go, they can't complain now that it's not abroad. If they're going abroad with their mum then they're very lucky.

Plenty of kids don't get to go abroad ever, or only rarely.

I enforce caravanning holidays on dd much to her disgust.

Wow, it does sound like you've been put through the wringer with your X and that you're clearly a good and concerned Dad. I don't think YABU but I also don't think the girls are behaving like entitled brats, as some have suggested. Blended families are very tricky, and especially so when there is so much bitterness on both sides.

I don't think you should back down on this holiday but for the sake of your relationship with the girls I still think some special "Dad-daughters" time would be useful. And in future it's probably safer to involve them more fully in the various options - i.e. "we could either go to X resort in Spain all of us together or have a lot of fun on an active holiday in the UK. Since you're going away with your mum in Y month, the three of us will also go on holiday then, but you can choose which one you'd rather go on".

Too slow again! In that case I think what you've done is fine. Your ex and her new partner sound like very hard work.

They will be gutted next year as i am hoping to buy a camper van and once that happens nobody (including my partner) will be getting any choice, every holiday will be in a camper van. Might solve the problem as they will probably refuse to go ha ha

I think it is a sad that people see a holiday in the UK as the poor relation of a week in a spanish resort. Other than the guaranteed weather the facilities and things to do in the UK are massively better than Spain. Yes the activities are much more expensive but by the time you take out the cost of flights the price difference is actually pretty neutral.

You know, its not till i start to write it down that i realise how mental it sounds. If any of my friends were in my situation i would give them hell for putting up with it. My worry is that history suggests if i fight my corner too much then my contact will be withdrawn still further. For obvious reasons this causes friction at home with my partner as i do try to placate my x and compromise as much as possible. I feel awful about that as she is totally innocent other than being with me and yet she constantly has to dance to somebody elses tune.

I think the holiday you let your girls design sounds like heaven for kids of that age.

I don't really get why you can't go on holiday when your girls are elsewhere.

Is there an approved list of things you are and are not to do when they are not with you?

Are you meant to just sit staring at your hands until they come back.

I'm sorry for you and your elder son that your relationship has broken down to that extent.

I don't think yabu but I'm quite surprised so many have agreed after reading very similar threads especially on the step board where the consensus has been very different.
I think it's understandable they might feel left out especially if mum is stoking the fire. But I think you should go and tell them to stop being ungrateful and brattish.
I don't really believe in trying to give kids from different families exactly the same, for example by the reasoning you've given dh and I should take dss on holiday without my ds because my ds had a holiday with his dad that dss didn't get with his mum. We have treated them fairly by taking them away together as a family.i take my ds away without dh and dss as well.

Flight, pool, English brekkie in an English pub in a Spanish town etc

This is my idea of nightmare holiday! I love spain and beaches and pools but not all week.

Op there is lots of issues here isn't there, I think you need to tell them to butt out.

perpahs look at how you can re build the relationshp?

I think it is a sad that people see a holiday in the UK as the poor relation of a week in a spanish resort. Other than the guaranteed weather the facilities and things to do in the UK are massively better than Spain

I would not knock either and if your geniune about uk hols, then whats problem.
problem is what your doing is being mis interpreted and twisted.

I am happy to go abroad and UK and would not knock either, I love holidays v diff if you always take son abroad and always keep dd to uk. then there is issue.

but weather is an issue.

I find it odd that you see it as fair because your son will have two holidays and so will the girls, whereas if

The DDs have had their parents split up and (it sounds like) at loggerheads at times since. Assuming your current relationship goes better your DS will have more in that way.

I don't think fairness necessarily means an equal number of holidays, expenditure or whatever.

I think if I were those girls I would be pretty upset too, because their half brother has more of your time than they do in general, and presumably they rarely get time trips away with you and without him.

Meant to say whereas if your DDs went with you then they'd have three holidays and him only two.

Your ex sounds like a nuisance but I have to disagree with you.

I couldn't leave DD with her dad and take future DC on holidays, regardless of how many holidays she'd had. It's far too divisive. I'm FAR from a martyr and an adult only holiday would be A-okay but I wouldn't do what you're planning Pippa, no way.