To wonder why so many Scottish people a thrilled when England do badly at sport?

[Jollyphonics]

I'm not bothered about the rugby at all personally, but this is irritating me. I have several Scottish friends, and their Facebook newsfeeds are full of gloating about England being knocked out of the world cup. It's a recurring theme with all sporting contests - mant Scottish people will support some random team from a country they've never heard of, if they're playing against England. I don't see the same with Wales and Ireland. Why is this? Is there that much resentment?

Licquorice that's why I said 'glee'. I agree 'bile' is taking it too far.

Eastmidlands I don't know, should I? Do I get special dispensation because I live in England?

The mistake that nationalists make is to assume that "the English" have oppressed them because they are Scottish or Welsh, when actually "the elite" have oppressed them because they are poor. Blaming your misfortunes on the English, or revelling in their sporting disappointments, is just buying into the narrative of the ruling classes. The English are not the enemy - the ruling class is.

Of course. You have clarified things so well.

If you are claiming a nationalistic justification to sporting gloating because the Welsh nation has been historically oppressed, you should now be reappraising it as contemporary England subsidises Wales through tax revenue. Nationalism is divisive and reactionary.

Nationalism is divisive and reactionary

But Ok for the English.

Do I get special dispensation because I live in England?

I would think that living in England would give you a better understanding that England and the English are not your enemy, except in the pantomime world of sport, and that England and the English are not oppressing you.

On reflection I think the Op may be poorly worded. It is not clear to me that the English did do "badly". John Inverdale and co seemed to be saying they did as well as could be expected under the circumstances given their relative inexperience. I suppose the more goady question would be why that was the best team they could field given their superior numbers and resources?

But Ok for the English.

Not at all. A lot of English nationalism is nasty and disturbing, but it draws a legitimacy from Scottish and Welsh nationalism.

Maybe be more specific to define types of nationalism: as an English person living in Scotland it appears to me that Scots nationalism is of the civic variety, and English nationalism is of the ethnic variety?

I moved all over the UK growing up. I was born to an English father and a Scottish mother. I speak with a very mixed English accent and now live in Scotland, where my daughter was born. I can assure you, OP, the bigotry and exhausting, childish bickering back and forth between the two can be heard, seen and experienced on both sides of the border.

Since England losing means Wales will go through regardless of whether we win or lose against Australia, I can assure you every Welsh fan was Aussie for the day!

It's because England (or the English press at least) are so bloody arrogant and act like they're going to win everything (did you know they won the world cup once... 50 years ago). Whereas we feel like the little guy so we'd rather support our other little guy home nation cousins than England.

I'm Scottish and I don't understand it either. It makes me ashamed to be Scottish actually

Rugby has always been a fairly universal activity (for men) in Yorkshire and Lancashire hackmum, not an upper class thing at all. Same with cricket.
The mistake that nationalists make is to assume that "the English" have oppressed them because they are Scottish or Welsh, when actually "the elite" have oppressed them because they are poor. Blaming your misfortunes on the English, or revelling in their sporting disappointments, is just buying into the narrative of the ruling classes. The English are not the enemy - the ruling class is.
I would agree with this. The English ruling class have always ridden roughshod over the majority of the English, as well as the Welsh, Scots and Irish.

(did you know they won the world cup once... 50 years ago)

Accept in rugby it was 12 years ago....

Since England losing means Wales will go through regardless of whether we win or lose against Australia, I can assure you every Welsh fan was Aussie for the day!

It isn't just yesterday though, which is what people are saying.

Plus yes be pleased you are going though but is there any need for the abuse that is flying around?????

NotMeNotYou - actually, England won the Rugby World Cup in 2003.

Maybe be more specific to define types of nationalism: as an English person living in Scotland it appears to me that Scots nationalism is of the civic variety, and English nationalism is of the ethnic variety?

For me, the problem is that it becomes hard to distinguish between the two when you get to the least sophisticated debate or audience. I don't think Nicola Sturgeon or Leanne Wood are racist/ethnic nationalists, but once they starts defining things as what "Scots" or "the Welsh" want, they frame the debate in those nationalistic terms, which then gives space for less savoury ideas/characters to operate. It's harder to argue against crass and objectionable English nationalism if English people see the Welsh and Scots rejoicing about English sporting defeats because a hundred years ago someone's great-grandad was told to speak differently at school.

Eastmidlandsmummy generally I describe myself as British (English DM). I feel it's more a case of English people not understanding why Welsh people might feel like we're discussing. DH (English) doesn't get it at all and I understand that as England as a whole country (ignoring class divides) has not been oppressed since the Norman invasion.

Rugby has always been a fairly universal activity (for men) in Yorkshire and Lancashire hackmum, not an upper class thing at all.

Not rugby union, though, like the World Cup, but rugby league. In England, there's huge class divide between the sports. Union is (broadly) a toffs game and League a working class sport.

In a pool with England, Wales and Australia and only 2 to go through there is a clear reason for Wales to support Aus against England to guarantee that they qualify for the QF. Reasonable self interest!

Switching allegiance to Japan as the underdog come good!

England football is a different matter - wouldn't support them anyway - prefer rugby!

Not rugby union, though, like the World Cup, but rugby league. In England, there's huge class divide between the sports. Union is (broadly) a toffs game and League a working class sport.

Vitually not any more though. As said previously. I know of many RFU international players who are not 'toffs' and certainly come from wc backgrounds.

I come from a city where it is taught in virtually all comprehensive schools.

A friend recently relocated back to England from Scotland as she couldn't take the anti-English nastiness she was subjected to on a fairly ferquent basis.

I vividly recall being appalled at a Scottish friend of a friend recounting loudly and proudly that he and his pals would drive to the border and 'piss into England'. Thia was in a crowded pub (in England). I'm not for one second suggesting that all Scottish people feel like this, but it's a bit disturbing nonetheless.

Hating the English rugby team is universal (unless you're English of course). England traditionally play v boring rugby and are totally arrogant in victory.

I think rugby fans across the world cheered last night.

Also let's not forget that both Wales and Australia played well and totally deserved to win.

Taught in more schools, yes, but rugby clubs are still very much middle-class institutions. (And a clear majority of the England World Cup squad went to private schools.)