To wonder why so many Scottish people a thrilled when England do badly at sport?

[Jollyphonics]

I'm not bothered about the rugby at all personally, but this is irritating me. I have several Scottish friends, and their Facebook newsfeeds are full of gloating about England being knocked out of the world cup. It's a recurring theme with all sporting contests - mant Scottish people will support some random team from a country they've never heard of, if they're playing against England. I don't see the same with Wales and Ireland. Why is this? Is there that much resentment?

Of course some small countries sometimes have a long streak where they are no longer the default under dogs. However that is not usually the case and it is impressive that NZ do so well given the size of their population.

But in nz it's their national game. And?

Football is our national game - doesn't mean we are any good at it

I think a lot of it is down to culture and lifestyle and attitude especially where small countries are concerned. I think NZ has a much more sporting culture than Scotland, in a lot of areas still, if you don't play football and only football then you are a social outcast. It's not "cool" to be good at anything else (except maybe boxing and martial arts but definitely nothing pansy or meant for sheep shaggers or posh folk) it's a shame as there is undoubtedly a lot of talent that just isn't identified.

Our local school raised money for basketball nets and now has several pupils playing nationally at junior level so it doesn't take a lot.

There are also just a lack of opportunities generally in anything other than football. My son has a brilliant front crawl and he has been asked to try out for the swim club several times but as his other strokes aren't quite good enough he hasn't been successful in gaining a place. He is 15 now and there is nothing for him. he has done all the swimming levels, all the Life guard levels and there simply isn't anything for him, so he sits on his PC instead. The school doesn't have a pool, so the only kids selected for inter school swimming competitions are the ones who already swim for the club. He is borderline aspergers and can't do team sports so water polo etc is out and he doesn't want to do water polo, he just wants to swim but he could do with something to go to rather than just swimming laps by himself.

Btw...when Andy Murray wins a tennis match he is British and when he loses he's Scottish. Yeh, we noticed ;)

I kept seeing this "when he wins he is British, when he loses he is Scottish" and thinking really? So, being a bit of a sad old biddy (and because I follow tennis very closely) I started keeping count when I read match reports in the papers, online and on the telly. It's rubbish. It is so not true.

It's on the same level as the old joke that Andy Murray hates England because of the banter he exchanged with his friend Tim Henman about "anyone but England" and therefore English people hate him.

These anecdotes may amuse at first but they really are now over-tired and over-used and they don't get any truer for being tediously repeated.

Agreed Andy Murray is never British. No one would make that mistake

But in a happy ending Andy's baby will be English!

(Not that I know their birth plan or anything, maybe they'll make a dash for the border?)

But I love Andy and his wife after the swearing incident. I really do. I get him. Did nobody watch his efforts in the Davis Cup? His lack of charm is just shyness.

I love Andy and his family too, they seem really genuine and happy and good luck to them, I say!

I met his grandmother at the shops a couple of years ago and she was saying what a lovely girl his now wife was and how well suited they were and that neither of them are the clubbing and showy type with money. I agree that they seem nice and I wish them well.

I've got tickets for the 02 ATP world tour finals in November. Was hoping to see him but he may pull out to practise on clay for the Davis Cup finals in Belgium the following week.

Don't blame him if he does although he will forfeit oodles of dosh.

Sorry, total derail...

grimbletart ok but the OP is not talking about media - the OP is talking about jo public on social networking and I have definitely seen that about Andy on FB.

My point is that it happens everywhere and the OP is incorrect that it's just Scottish people. Does the OP think it never happens the other way round?

Even Warren Gatland was commenting on telly a few days ago at the way players have become so massive over the last very few years.

Yes! When I look back at the guys I grew up with in Dublin in the 90s, the 17 and 18 year olds on the Senior Cup teams were still quite lean and boyish looking. Fast forward twenty years and the current members of the Senior Cup teams are built like tanks!

I suppose once a sport becomes professional it's taken a lot more seriously even at a schools level and the intense training starts at a younger age.

when Andy Murray wins a tennis match he is British and when he loses he's Scottish.

People always trot this line out and I just don't think it's true!

I have definitely heard the Andy "British/Scottish" thing on tv - maybe even more than once but I think it is a massive overstatement to say that it happens all the time - obviously happening less at the moment anyway since he has been winning :) I also think that people have been made aware and I think there is also a bit less antipathy since Wimbledon and him also showing his personality a bit more as a shy, sensitive person with a dry sense of humour rather than the image of the dour Scot (or Scotch :o )

So the OP should be reworded "To wonder why so many people are thrilled when another country do badly at sport?

Because it's a competition.

But then they wouldn't have been able to have a dig at the Scots, bramblepie.

squoosh, I think you're right.

He's British when he plays and Scottish whenever he opens his mouth to the press.

myotherusername would he try open water or distance swimming? They only swim front crawl. Can he run or cycle? If so he could try biathlons/duathlons/tris? Run by the Modern Pentathlon and Triathlon sports. The club's are a bit more flexible than standard swim clubs IME.

Thanks Myth We did look at Triathalon as there is a local club but he doesn't enjoy cycling/running and the club is also very competitive. I think he would enjoy open water swimming - nothing available very close but there was a "come and try " event advertised that wasn't too far away and he was sort of interested but when I looked into to it more they had to be over 16, so maybe something for later.

He is perfectly competent in all the other strokes but his crawl is the best by far. Even a holidaymaker (she was a swim coach from Holland) came over and commented to us about what a great stroke he had and that was swimming in the sea - off the boat on a trip. He has the right build for it apart from being a bit narrow across the shoulders but that's mainly because he isn't training at all and he hasn't filled out yet. MY Oh is a fairly competent swimmer but he hasn't been able to beat him since he was about 11. But then again, he is quiet and shy so probably doesn't do his best under pressure anyway - beating Dad is no pressure :)

Actually more people in NZ play football than rugby. Rugby is quite easy for a schoolchild to avoid these days. The reason why NZ is so good at rugby (and why it overperforms at most sports) is there is much more of a sporting culture. It's quite normal for schoolchildren to play 2 or 3 sports outside school and, of course, many of them will continue them on into adulthood. Also, unlike in the British Isles where football has a suffocating dominance, most of those sports require hand-eye co-ordination. I note that in NZ most sports run on a shoestring. Money helps, but there's no substitute for dedication.

Re football, if NZ had more ability to call on its players and play more matches against the big countries, it would be much higher than 148. I'd expect NZ to draw or beat any of the British / Irish teams except England if they had their best XI on the park with adequate time to train together.

If NZ had a population of 50 million and the same sporting culture, they'd clean up against everyone in every sport.

But back to English - Scottish rivalry. Playing the oppression card won't wash, because the English haven't done any oppressing of the Scots as a nation since the Middle Ages. It's just professional offence-taking wrapped up in a pseudo-Calvinist superiority complex. And if you share your television resources with a massively larger neighbour, you can expect plenty of references to things that interest them. The harsh truth is that you can't expect parity of television content between a nation of 50 million and a nation of 5 million.

If he has reasonable fly/breast/back i am surprised a swimming club won't take him though. My DDs and DSs clubs would take most children who really want to join - they just have different levels/times. Is it a top very competitive club? Is there another smaller club nearby? In our town there is a main swim club but also smaller less competitive clubs in some of the local pools.

Yes, very competitive club (home of the National swim centre), we did think of going out of location but it meant going in the opposite direction every day from the drive to school (also not local) so given that he was happy at the time doing his Life guard, we really didn't pursue it - now Life guards is finished so it really only now we've realised that he isn't left with anything - a bit stupid of us really :(

He is in the middle of DofE silver now anyway (Just a skill to find) so is probably busy enough with that plus scouts but I think he misses swimming.

Last 16 Onwards and upwards Scotland - makes up for the football.