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AIBU?

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Original poster

To wonder why so many Scottish people a thrilled when England do badly at sport?

349 replies

Jollyphonics · 04/10/2015 14:02

I'm not bothered about the rugby at all personally, but this is irritating me. I have several Scottish friends, and their Facebook newsfeeds are full of gloating about England being knocked out of the world cup. It's a recurring theme with all sporting contests - mant Scottish people will support some random team from a country they've never heard of, if they're playing against England. I don't see the same with Wales and Ireland. Why is this? Is there that much resentment?

OP posts:
Shutthatdoor · 04/10/2015 23:23

Welsh here and loving it. There is just something so insufferably arrogant about England Rugby Union.

Hmm what a lovely thing to say.......

Rhine · 04/10/2015 23:23

Also, the demographic who follow and play rugby in Wales is definitely different from in England. Here it is very much a sport for everyone, where as in England it seems like everyone involved in Rugby Union is privately educated and very well spoken. They were interviewing some young fans on the news and they were very plummy sounding.

If it can be a working mans game here I don't see why it can't be there. But at the moment it seems very elitist.

GiddyOnZackHunt · 04/10/2015 23:25

It does remind me of the weather reporting. Gales & snow outside of the south east are rarely newsworthy. England can crush Wales by 10 points but Wales narrowly hold on to a 10 point win. My English DH notices it too now.
The feeling that England were the posh lads really dates back to before the era of Union going professional. Then you had an England team stuffed full of people in the police and forces who were allowed time off for training, a Scottish team full of farmers and a Welsh team of miners and steel workers struggling to hold down a job. Obviously not everyone was in that position but it tended that way.

Nottodaythankyouorever · 04/10/2015 23:29

Here as in England it seems like everyone involved in Rugby Union is privately educated and very well spoken. They were interviewing some young fans on the news and they were very plummy sounding.

It has been said by quite a few people on this thread that that isn't the case.

I come from a big rugby city, which is anything but 'plum in mouth'. don't let that stop you continuing to circulate that myth though

TinklyLittleLaugh · 04/10/2015 23:30

I'm saying it like I see it Shut. And a lot of people share my view.

derxa · 04/10/2015 23:34

a Scottish team full of farmers I saw John Jeffrey selling his sheep at Kelso last month. He did go to Merchiston Castle though.

Shutthatdoor · 04/10/2015 23:35

I'm saying it like I see it Shut. And a lot of people share my view.

You might well be and you are entitled to that view, however hurling abuse at people from behind a keyboard to the point where they feel they have to leave SM is quite frankly disgusting, as are some of the things that have actually been said.

A lot of people also share my view that this weekend it has crossed the line from 'banter' to keyboard warrior abuse.

Mytholmroyd · 04/10/2015 23:36

I can vouch for the fact that one of the England squad who came from rugby league (definitely a working class sport here in Yorkshire) attended private school on a fees scholarship. And by no stretch of anyone's imagination could you call him arrogant.

As an Englishwoman (with Scottish borders ancestry) I am bewildered by the antipathy to the 'English' - my ancestors were weavers, servants, chauffeurs, cabinet makers, miners, factory workers and in no position to suppress anyone in Wales, Scotland or Ireland or wield any power. My generation was the first to be educated beyond the age of 13. They were mostly too busy surviving.

This lazy narrative needs to change and focus on the real 'enemy' which is not the working class whose lives and life expectancy were no better in mill towns in the north of England than poor people everywhere - with the exception of the horrendous human tragedies such as the Great Famine. The knee-jerk reaction to hate and blame 'The English' is really childish, misdirected and tiresome. Most of us had no say.

GiddyOnZackHunt · 04/10/2015 23:39

Ha derxa John Jeffrey is exactly who represents the Scots rugby playing farmer in my head :)

derxa · 04/10/2015 23:41

Inverdale really is such a knob. You've got to the root of the problem. He is a public school Little Englander.

grimbletart · 04/10/2015 23:41

So you are by definition a toff if you go to an independent school according to EastMids. Grin Well, that's certainly a novel definition of toff.

Thinking back to my husband's rugby playing days many years ago the team he captained was a real cross section of society and to my certain knowledge included a couple of builders, an electrician, a plumber (who installed our central heating), a doctor, a PE teacher, someone who worked for the council as some sort of clerk, a supermarket worker, a small business owner, an ex-serviceman (don't know what he did), an accountant, a policeman….can't remember the others.And my husband was an ex state grammar school lad who serviced washing machines until he found his niche as a computer geek. Toffs every one of them (not).

This thread is so full of stereotypes. Anyone can play rugby if they are interested enough to find a club. They don't black ball you if you didn't go to the "right" school. And more state schools could play it too, if they didn't tend to prefer football.

I agree about the English bias in the London centric media. However, it's a bit like EastMids point about 60% of the England team coming from independent schools when only 7% of the population go to independent schools. The population of England accounts for nearly 84% of the UK with Scotland, Wales and NI account for 16%. So maybe a bias towards the 84% who make up the media audience is slightly understandable, even if not defensible.

myotherusernameisbetter · 04/10/2015 23:44

I said during the referendum that we should be celebrating the common factors we have across the countries rather than poking around to find the differences. I have more in common with a lot of English people than I do with most Glaswegians tbh, that's not slagging anyone off, just a fact of how I feel.

Despite that, I wouldn't support the English Rugby or Football teams.

Bubblesinthesummer · 04/10/2015 23:46

Inverdale really is such a knob. You've got to the root of the problem. He is a public school Little Englander.*

So if you go to public school you are a 'little Englander' and a knob.

I agree with grimbletart Lots of very unhelpful (and lazy) stereotypes on this thread

derxa · 04/10/2015 23:50

No I mean he went to public school and he is a Little Englander. I generally like public school boys. my sons for a start.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 04/10/2015 23:52

Grimble when only 7% of the population are privileged to go to independent school, obviously in many people's eyes they will be percieved as a "toff". Can you really not see why this might be the case?

TinklyLittleLaugh · 04/10/2015 23:56

Yes Inverdale has history as a knob. Remember his sexist nonsense about that woman tennis player? He is a total dinosaur.

grimbletart · 04/10/2015 23:56

Tinkly: I can see why in many people's eyes they will be perceived as "toffs". That, however, does not make the perception correct. Smile

derxa · 05/10/2015 00:00

No we're not toffs by any stretch of the imagination. I've lost the focus of this thread. Everyone can support any team they like.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 05/10/2015 00:01

Grimble depends on how you define "toff" I suppose. If you define it as moneyed and priviliged then people going to independent school would, on the whole, meet the definition.

Funinthesun15 · 05/10/2015 00:07

Grimble depends on how you define "toff" I suppose. If you define it as moneyed and priviliged then people going to independent school would, on the whole, meet the definition.

As has already been said if you get there on a scholarship (as has been established a number of the England players have) then they may not be 'moneyed' but from working class backgrounds.

If you mean moneyed as in what they have now, then that would cover most home nations players Grin

Shutthatdoor · 05/10/2015 00:07

No we're not toffs by any stretch of the imagination. I've lost the focus of this thread. Everyone can support any team they like.

Grin
grimbletart · 05/10/2015 00:10

We'll have to agree to differ Tinkly. I went to an independent school, one of my DC's did and we were certainly not moneyed or privileged. Just a normal family who happened to put in the hard yards to make it possible.

Sorry, but I don't think "toffs" = ordinary middle class families. Toff is either, according to the OED is an upper class person or a smartly dressed person.

grimbletart · 05/10/2015 00:12

Off to bed now. Interesting thread. Good luck to Wales, Scotland and Ireland - from this English rugby fan.

Bambambini · 05/10/2015 00:14

It's Jimmy Hill's fault and bloody Braveheart.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 05/10/2015 00:18

Yes Fun, I am aware that many players get scholarships to independent schools. My comments are more in response to Grimble's apparent surprise that someone going to public school would be considered a "toff".

Because to the majority of working class people that would automatically be the case. And all you independent educators who are claiming this is not so have not mixed in very working class circles recently.