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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Cleaner

152 replies

UnderTheF1oorboards · 03/10/2015 01:16

Our cleaner has worked for us for about 2 years. She comes for one morning a week. Good worker, no issues, although she isn't left alone in the house for long periods. She doesn't have a key so someone has to be at my house to let her in.

She is self-employed, not agency. I pay her the rate she asks which is a fair bit above the living wage and I also instigated an arrangement whereby I still pay her if I cancel her coming, but I don't pay her if she cancels. We arrived at this after some persuasion because I wanted to give her sick pay plus an agreed number of weeks' holiday pay like a normal British employee (she isn't British), but she wouldn't hear of it - said it would be immoral to take money for time she hadn't worked.

So this week I had to cancel because, unavoidably, I couldn't be there to let her in. I don't do this often. Under our arrangement she still gets paid for this week.

She replied with two texts in her language followed by one in English apologising, saying the others were meant for her daughter and wishing me a good day. The two texts in her language mentioned my name so out of curiosity I had them translated and it turns out her opinion of me is pretty low! I was shocked because I've always tried to treat her well.

I no longer feel like this is someone I want in my home or around my DC, especially for spells when I'm not there. WIBU to give her a month's pay in lieu of notice and fire her?

OP posts:
EponasWildDaughter · 03/10/2015 12:22

You pay your cleaner £20 for 3 hours work Katinkka? Shock

That's less than the minimum wage. You should be ashamed.

DanglyEarrings · 03/10/2015 12:23

cruik I don't think cleaners think bad of their clients usually.

We don't and neither do our staff but on rare occassion if we begin to think a homeowner is rude or expects more than the service we offer then we would rather withdraw service than be rude about them behind their back.

In these rare instances we are just not a good match for one another, it does not make either party 'wrong' or worthy of bein called behind their back.

We say a lot of nice things about the majority of clients behind their backs because we really do have a warm relationship with them and like them, I think it's such a personal service and if you do what you say you'll do, most clients are so appreciative it would be hard to find anything bad to say about them.

It's a relationship which relies upon mutual trust and respect.

LisbethSalandersLaptop · 03/10/2015 12:24

I bet she is Polish, that is just such a very Polish thing to say.
Sack her.

LisbethSalandersLaptop · 03/10/2015 12:26

" would bet the full implication of 'parasite' is lost in translation "

Clutching at straws there much Grin?
No a parasite is a parasite in any language.
OP, just get rid of her.
Nasty biatch.

LisbethSalandersLaptop · 03/10/2015 12:27

do not even give a month's pay.
Tell her to google 'gross misconduct'.

Lweji · 03/10/2015 12:36

I would sack her, but I'd find another cleaner before, tbh, and pay her a month in advance if you do feel sorry for her.

I have to say I find it funny how you say you pay well over living wage and how you pay her what she asked for.
Are you aware of cleaner rates in London, even non-agency?
Good luck finding a cheaper one, at least long term. If you find a cheaper one, it will be because they are useless or have just started and will drop you as soon as they get better pay.

DanglyEarrings · 03/10/2015 12:39

You don't have to follow any disciplinary procedures to get rid of her, she is self-employed you just stop using her services.

If you signed an agreement to give notice then just pay that but you don't need to use disciplinary terms like 'gross misconduct' or follow the usual procedures, it's simple, you just don't purchase any more services from her.

LisbethSalandersLaptop · 03/10/2015 12:43

DanglyEarrings is right - as she is freelance then employment law is not applicable.
Just stop using her.

Collaborate · 03/10/2015 13:07

^^ This. Absolutely.

I mean, you wouldn't give notice to a shop you didn't want to frequent any more would you?

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 03/10/2015 13:56

Why would I need to clutch at straws Lisbeth? Confused It's well established that languages have subtleties and things get lost in translation. Plus context.

There is no way that 'parasite' is a nice thing to say in any language but analysis of its exact meaning from a decontextualised English language point of view is ... misguided to say the least.

Original poster
UnderTheF1oorboards · 03/10/2015 14:34

She isn't Polish.

All sorted. I texted her to explain why I cancelled, said I was dismayed by what I had seen and wanted to get her perspective. She replied saying she was angry because she doesn't like to sit around doing nothing and because she had had an offer of better work which she had turned down. Then a bunch of flannel about how the terms she used are a joke or term of endearment (!) in her country and google translate makes mistakes. I responded that it was another person, not google that told me what she said but nevertheless if she needs a reference I will give her a good one. Radio silence since then.

DP's been looking at agencies. Surprisingly there are plenty in our area the same price or cheaper than her. Doubt the cleaner him or herself will see much of that though Sad.

OP posts:
Outcomesthebunnyofdeath · 03/10/2015 14:40

I don't neccasarily think this means she has a bad opinion of you but maybe is just a way of her justifying her menial job to herself and family.

Either that or a bit of working class snobery if there is such at thing ?

Would tell her you translated it and then act on her reaction myself....

Marynary · 03/10/2015 14:50

She replied saying she was angry because she doesn't like to sit around doing nothing and because she had had an offer of better work which she had turned down.

So she is angry with you because she didn't get the opportunity to be paid by you and someone else too? What a nerve. No way would I employ her again.

mileend2bermondsey · 03/10/2015 15:46

Errr, OP did you actually tell her she was fired or just say 'but nevertheless if [you] need a reference I will give [you] a good one'??

Viviennemary · 03/10/2015 15:55

She sounds horrible and really unappreciative of your generousity in giving her sick pay and so on. That's not usual for cleaners that just do a few hours a week. I'd give her notice and make an excuse. She'll probably know why. Not sure if I'd give her a month's pay. Perhaps a week or two week's pay at most. You've been too nice to her IMHO.

LookAtAllThesePhucksIGive · 03/10/2015 16:49

Maybe she sent you that text "accidentally on purpose"? :o tbh I'd get rid. You've been so kind and generous to her. So what if you cancelled at too short notice? It's clearly an emergency. It's not like she turned up and was sent away. She was still at home and could have suggested coming another day if she doesn't want your generous offer of keeping the money. Give google translate a go. Type all you want to say to her including your amusement at her "parasite" opinion and send her on her way with your good wishes. Cut and paste. There you go. I'd rather clean a teenagers mattress with my toothbrush than have somebody with a low opinion of me wandering my home so freely. I've many low opinions of my boss but have never gone to his home or text them to him.

Narp · 03/10/2015 16:55

Does she pay tax?

PurpleDaisies · 03/10/2015 17:03

What makes you think she wouldn't narp?

Narp · 03/10/2015 17:12

Dunno, just asking. Cash in hand job.

DanglyEarrings · 03/10/2015 19:15

Narp - I know it looks like that kind of thing but OP has said the cleaner accepts bank transfer so she must be running a legit business, as she should do, however her customer service skills leave a lot to be desired! Sad

Booyaka · 03/10/2015 19:27

I think you should be careful of the translation. Even if it is a literal translation you don't quite know the nuances of the language so although it translates badly in to our language to her it might have the strength of saying 'a bit of a pain in the bum' or similar.

I could understand if you were now unhappy to have her in the house. But given that you were otherwise happy with her work I would say you should be prepared to give her a reference.

DanglyEarrings · 03/10/2015 19:36

Is there any way to find out nuances of language and culture, it could actually change the way we are thinking about this?

DotForShort · 03/10/2015 19:39

Of course you expect civility, but it sounds as though she has always been civil to you. She let off steam in a message not meant for you. I'm sure we have all said things about other people we wouldn't want them to hear. I would imagine she is mortified.

I do understand why you decided to sack her based on seeing that message. It's impossible to unsee something that has been seen, and it could easily create an uncomfortable amount of tension. But I think if I were in that situation I would have continued to employ her and tried to ignore the misdirected text.

I'm curious about her native language. Was it Russian or another Slavic language?

merrymouse · 03/10/2015 19:59

From what the OP said she didn't sound mortified when she tried to clarify why she was unhappy.

amarmai · 03/10/2015 20:02

Can you really forget and forgive her calling you a parasite when you are paying her for doing nothing and over the minimum wage? You are working for the money that goes to her bank account. Why are you a parasite. Learn how to say the word in her language and call her that and see her reaction !