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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Cleaner

152 replies

UnderTheF1oorboards · 03/10/2015 01:16

Our cleaner has worked for us for about 2 years. She comes for one morning a week. Good worker, no issues, although she isn't left alone in the house for long periods. She doesn't have a key so someone has to be at my house to let her in.

She is self-employed, not agency. I pay her the rate she asks which is a fair bit above the living wage and I also instigated an arrangement whereby I still pay her if I cancel her coming, but I don't pay her if she cancels. We arrived at this after some persuasion because I wanted to give her sick pay plus an agreed number of weeks' holiday pay like a normal British employee (she isn't British), but she wouldn't hear of it - said it would be immoral to take money for time she hadn't worked.

So this week I had to cancel because, unavoidably, I couldn't be there to let her in. I don't do this often. Under our arrangement she still gets paid for this week.

She replied with two texts in her language followed by one in English apologising, saying the others were meant for her daughter and wishing me a good day. The two texts in her language mentioned my name so out of curiosity I had them translated and it turns out her opinion of me is pretty low! I was shocked because I've always tried to treat her well.

I no longer feel like this is someone I want in my home or around my DC, especially for spells when I'm not there. WIBU to give her a month's pay in lieu of notice and fire her?

OP posts:
Unreasonablebetty · 03/10/2015 08:15

Angry if someone called me a parasite all unreasonableness would go straight out of the window.... But you know if she's a good worker (I'm on a Facebook page where mums are always looking for new cleaners as a good one is hard to find) are you cutting your nose off despite your face if you sack her?

If you do keep her don't let it go unnoticed, tell her you saw what she said, tell her the situation and that she was really out of order cos you've been pretty fair with her.

I can see why you are upset,

Why wouldnt she just go, ah result! Im up, I'm dressed and I've got a few hours... How can I make the most of it? Many self employed people aren't in that fortunate position where work gets cancelled and they still get paid.

Unreasonablebetty · 03/10/2015 08:15

Reasonableness not unreasonableness

wigglesrock · 03/10/2015 08:18

It wouldn't really bother me tbh. I can't think of one job where I haven't called my boss a name or given off about a colleague to a family member. She did it by text, I've also had that heart stopping moment where I've realised I've sent a text to the wrong person.

I'm sure people I've had in my house - plumber, painter, family members, the odd friend have said something less than flattering about me - I know I have about them. I think you're being a bit precious.

JumpRope · 03/10/2015 08:19

If she's a good cleaner, you don't have to see her a lot, and you trust her not to rip you off, I would definitely keep her. It's not like an au pair or nanny who would become part of your family, just keep it at a distance.

Good, honest cleaners are so hard to find where I am (south east) and bad new ones can be so frustrating.

Pico2 · 03/10/2015 08:26

I'd get over the living wage/minimum wage thing. Domestic cleaners charge about that round here. It doesn't make you Lady Bountiful.

dannydyerismydad · 03/10/2015 08:29

If I could get a good cleaner for £11 an hour I'd let her say anything she likes about me!

I live outside London. You can't get a cleaner for less than £14 an hour.

Jinglebells99 · 03/10/2015 08:29

One of the reasons I don't have a cleaner is because I used to hear the mums who were cleaners slagging off their clients at the school gates. They were so judgey about the people they worked for. And yet two of these cleaners are constantly recommended on a local facebook page.

DanglyEarrings · 03/10/2015 08:54

I think it's poor form of her to badmouth you but she didn't intend for you to see it.

We are a cleaning company and it is written within our terms that we need minimum 24 hours notice to cancel a service so that we can reschedule other work into the spot if we need to.

We hold a key for almost every client and if not we do not allow a cancellation when they are not home to let us in as they could simply let us have a key to access the home, if they do not wish us to hold the key we could post it back.

It is right that she did not accept holiday pay etc as she is not your employee so not enitled to these statutory rights, otherwise you would need to be contacting HMRC, however if she is legitimately self-employed and not working 'under the table' for cash in hand (you already said she accepts bank transfers so she must be registered and declaring her income) then I don't think £11 per hour is a very high rate for a legit cleaning business to charge, all business costs to consider, she certainly won't be able to grow her business on that amount but she would be able to maintain her job if that's all she wants to do. Of price a legit cleaning service charges the customer a fraction of that is drawn as wages the rest goes to business costs of travel, insurances, supplies provided etc.

I'm not siding with her at all, just pointing out her position. I think it's awful of her to slag off her clients in any way and it was incredibly indisreet of her to let you find out that she has. I suppose she is human.

I don't know what I would do in your shoes because it is known in the UK that good cleaners are hard to find, we are always fully booked or almost fully booked and finding decent staff is very difficult, we have to pay our cleaning staff very well to attract them keep them with us and that is for an employed position with all the benefits so I wouldn't let them go lightly.

On reflection, these are my thoughts; I think if the trust has been broken (only you can decide this) then I would let her go and try another service, but if you can see it as a human reaction of a person who had been let down at the last minute when they could have planned that time for something else then I would forgive, and make sure she had a key so it didn't occur again.

Twickerhun · 03/10/2015 09:03

I think you need to put to her your dissatisfaction and ask her to respond, then decide what to do. That's what a reasonable person would do rather than fire her without a right to respond and defend herself.

TheCatsMother99 · 03/10/2015 09:06

There is no way I would pay her another penny if she was my cleaner and spoke about me like that.

She fucked up, it's not your responsibility to pay her and get nothing in return due to her stupid mistake.

tableanadchairs · 03/10/2015 09:12

what thecat said ^^

CakeMakesEverythingBetter · 03/10/2015 09:18

I don't think I'd be able to continue the relationship with my cleaner if I found out she was speaking about me like that. Fair enough if I was in the wrong but you're not! She still gets paid. I can see no reason for her to be anything other than happy she would be getting money for nothing.

Fwiw my cleaner doesn't have a key either, but does have the code to a key safe which I leave out on the rare occasions nobody is home when she comes.

clam · 03/10/2015 09:18

"You knew they weren't for you , so you were a bit naughty/ nosey to see what they said."

They came to her phone! Of course she's entitled to read them. It's not as if she steamed open an envelope addressed to someone else, or knelt at a keyhole to eavesdrop on a private conversation.

I'm torn on this one though. Whilst you don't need to be best friends with your cleaner, I do think it's important to have trust between you and someone who comes into your home.

merrymouse · 03/10/2015 09:19

She isn't your employee so you don't have to give her notice.

I would expect to be told my services were no longer required If I bad mouthed my client, particularly if I was still getting paid for not working.

You aren't underpaying her.

Whether you take her back is up to you - if she has worked for you for 2 years without incident and she is efficient I would be tempted to keep her.

However I would say that you saw and understood the texts and ask her to clarify why she is unhappy. Give her the opportunity to clear the air/apologise/air reasonable grievances or your relationship will be stressful.

mileend2bermondsey · 03/10/2015 09:21

We've all slagged off our bosses at some point or another haven't we? I've said worse about bosses who were great. She was just having a moan to her daughter/friend. Parasite does seem strong but again it may be a lost in translation thing, it may not be as offensive in her language?

I'd be upset but if shes a good, trust worthy worker of the last four years I wouldn't sack her over it. But it's your home and you have to be uncomfortable with your decision.

But I find the fact that you had the texts translated really weird. Why would you do that?

PurpleDaisies · 03/10/2015 09:28

Did she definitely know she was getting paid? The comment about you not realising she needed to work sounds to me like she didn't and if you don't cancel often perhaps she hadn't realised. If she thought you'd cancelled at the last minute without paying it would be reasonable to mouth off to a sibling wouldn't it?

DanglyEarrings · 03/10/2015 09:29

Woooah!! I've just realised she got paid anyway because you cancelled her and these were the agreed terms.

Well what is she bellyaching about then? Confused

Oh I don't know what to think now!!

wickedwaterwitch · 03/10/2015 09:31

I'd sack her.

You're paying a rate she's (presumably) happy with, you're paying her even though she doesn't have to work today, you're cancelling for a good reason and she called you a parasite. She sent those texts to your phone.

I wouldnt want anyone in my house who called me that or thought so badly of me - there's nothing parasitical about paying somone for a job.

You'll find somone else I'm sure. I pay less than that in the South East and I know from friends that I'm paying more than they do.

merrymouse · 03/10/2015 09:36

If somebody accidentally sent me a text in a foreign language that mentioned me by name I would definitely have it translated.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 03/10/2015 09:39

Well, I can see why you're pissed off. But £11 an hour is average. I'm in London and pay £12 per hour and think that is fairly standard. NMW and LLW have nothing to do with it - they are guidelines and your cleaner is self-employed anyway so it's not a wage.

Also I would be careful about taking texts to a daughter translated into another language at face value. There are cultural meanings, subtleties and context that you won't get.

I also think it's a bit odd that your cleaner doesn't have a key and can only work if someone lets her in. That suggests you don't trust her - hardly a basis for a great relationship.

merrymouse · 03/10/2015 09:40

Cleaning services who bring their own supplies and have offices and staff have far higher costs than somebody who just turns up to clean and is in effect being paid for their time only.

PookBob · 03/10/2015 09:43

Why on earth wouldn't you get the messages translated? When they contained your name? I find it bizarre that anyone would think, 'no, no, that's private... Even though it is clearly about me'.

I would terminate the contract. And not give notice. You really haven't given her any need to be so rude.

I pay £7ph for my cleaner, outside of London. £11 sounds like a great rate of pay.

flanjabelle · 03/10/2015 09:46

I would definitely text her telling her you know and asking heR to respond.

PurpleDaisies · 03/10/2015 09:47

£7 per hour? I've never heard of anyone paying that little before-isn't the minimum wage more than that? I pay £12.50 in a not very expensive area of the country.

abigamarone · 03/10/2015 09:52

But I find the fact that you had the texts translated really weird. Why would you do that?
That's what I'm wondering - you knew it was sent to your phone by mistake, you didn't understand it and yet went to the trouble of getting it translated. And even then you're dependent on their interpretation.