They're not refugees, we're being invaded

[goonthenflameme]

I admit, the Syrians have got it bad. There is a war and those boys who haven't been shot by ISIL are being conscripted by the President.

But if life is that bad, why do they only want to go to Germany and if they can't go then then they'll go back to Syria.

Why are we now seeing people from Kazakstan joining the throngs?

I agree that people from Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria need help. But the thougsands and thousands of people coming through can't all be refugees in dire need of help if they are so picky as to where they will live.

They're invading Europe. And we are letting them. What's going to happen in 20 years? Will Christianity and western ways be swept under the carpet?

Sorry, I meant the rapes in the refugee camps didn't happen.

A poster on a previous thread, when I posted the Swedish link, tried to say that the Swedish rapes didn't happen either, because apparently the Swedish research was done by a right wing think tank.

Scary reading!

Apparently it's all lies from right wing blogs

Quite

To be fair, I don't doubt for an instant that some things are invented; too bad for the deniers, though, that in the cases mentioned the court records exist to show what happened

Unless they too are being falsified in some horrible anti-muslim conspiracy??

I've just read about Adil Rashid (the Daily Mail, sadly). He was taught in his madrassa that 'women are no more worthy than a lollipop that has been dropped on the ground.'
Nice.

Most people in the UK know the real issues here. Unde a third of the people are Syrian and most are economic migrants who did not face death in Turkey, Afghanistan, Pakinstan etc. and we don't have space for them all in the EU and nor do they tend to be people with values that we need. They tend to be very sexist and that will be awful for women in the UK if even more of these people who regard women as the lowest of the low come here. This is an issue mumsnet should be campaigning on really - stopping the spread of imported sexism.

We also have a big problem with people over staying their visas in the UK and very very poor enforcement.

When muslim women themselves use the argument of wrapped versus unwrapped sweets to justify hijab, its not really surprising when some muslim men then view uncovered women as 'asking for it'.

Another graphic doing the rounds and on billboards in Iran

Mia thats appalling I find the picture with the flies around the sweet really really disturbing.

Correction to my post at 19.00: apparently Adil Rashid wasn't acquitted, but given a suspended sentence. Hardly what many felt he should have received, but just wanted to put that right ...

We have a friend who works in Pakistan. He has been saying for years that there will be a hijrah in his lifetime. This is when Muslims travel to a non Muslim country to spread Islam. Muslims believe that by doing this they will receive credit in heaven. I can understand how displaced people with very little hope, might decide to go for broke and go to a non Islamic country.

The increase in Muslim communities throughout Europe will mean an increase in the influence of Sharia law and a challenge to the laws that the UK and Europe have been governed by for centuries. Someone upthread mentioned that we have only 4% of Muslims in this country, but we have had issues about halal meat in the UK, that have caused many threads on Mumsnet in the past. The difference of opinion between Muslims and everyone else are only going to increase, not decrease in the years to come.

noeffingidea well apparently MNHQ agreed with me as they removed your racist comments

They may have agreed with you, but that's not what I said, overthemill.

He has been saying for years that there will be a hijrah in his lifetime.

So have I, and I'm neither Pakistani nor Muslim. I'm just good at reading cultural developments (usually. I'm not infallible.)

Once again, we're collectively choosing to spit venom at each other about them forriners instead of doing anything sensible, like build unity and specify conditions to our welcome and the boundaries of our compassion.

Those memes are dreadful. They remind me of right wing Christians in the USA saying that a girl who isn't a virgin is a like an already chewed piece of gum.

It looks like a lot of the same stuff to me. Women policing other women, and virtue signalling out of "one-ups-manship." Sort of doubling down on whatever we think the boys will like in order to impress them. Nothing virtuous about that. at. all. It's a form of vanity, really.

I've only known three muslim women well in my life. They are all accomplished, feminists, non-veil wearing and raising impressive daughters. Maybe this is a generational thing? I am in my 40s and so are they.

instead of doing anything sensible, like build unity and specify conditions to our welcome and the boundaries of our compassion.

Agree Garrick. I like Scremesford's idea of enshrining women's rights before anti-racists considerations.

It would probably help if sex crimes were taken more seriously and sentenced more appropiately.

I have been in Iran. Those posters don't surprise me.

Heigh in the UK it is the daughters who are covering up and their mothers who are often appalled because the mothers in their day had liked the freedom of not having to do so. So it is goping backwards for some families - same in Iran and Afghanistan - women had rights and then many fewer.

Also women tend to civilise and most of those seeking to come here are young men many fleeing conscription in North Africa, a good few of whom are muslim (and they mostly won't come as Cameron and the British people and the Channel will stop it and their desire is for Germany and Sweden anyway not UK - the evil feminist state.....)

In an astounding number of cases, the Swedish courts have demonstrated sympathy for the rapists

this makes me wonder if, even in modern countries where women are treated more equally, misogyny and 'she asked for it' is lurking just beneath the surface ready to emerge under the cover of not wanting to be racist.

As if sexual equality is a very very thin veneer:(

noeffingidea It would probably help if sex crimes were taken more seriously and sentenced more appropriately

I really think we also need to criminalise more sexually aggressive/aggravated behaviour, in the way we do racially aggravated behaviour. I think its clear that we already live in a time where women need more protection from the law than they currently receive.

I also think we should use the law to help shape behaviour before it comes to prosecuting more serious sexual crimes such as rape.

Changing the law clearly can and does have a beneficial effect on societal behaviour - now that we crack down heavily, quite rightly, on the slightest hint of racially aggravated behaviour, such as a throwaway racist remark or label, we have all become much, much more aware of the issue of racism. Sometimes people take this too far - e.g. the posters on here who think mentioning someone's nationality unnecessarily is racist in itself. Imagine if the same happened with gender ie mentioning that someone was male or female was considered sexist!

I don't see why this should target solely women. I think it should be focussed on sexually aggravated behaviour, ie singling out one gender for unacceptable harassment/assault.

Think you might have a point there, Suzanne. At least where older men are concerned, which I suppose judges are likely to be.
There seems to be a lot of cases where judges hand down light sentences to sex offenders, or come up with excuses for them.

I also think we should use the law to help shape behaviour before it comes to prosecuting more serious sexual crimes such as rape ... Changing the law clearly can and does have a beneficial effect on societal behaviour

I agree with all of that, but with two caveats: Firstly there has to be consensus that everyone is subject to the same laws; secondly those laws have to be consistently and rigorously applied

Unfortunately, at the moment, I don't think we're even close to having either of those things

Undergraduates at Kabul University in the 1970s. Hard to imagine now, heh?

A Swedish friend I saw over the summer told me that it was now a bigger crime in Sweden to be a racist than a rapist.

And that the law has changed recently so that any online debate about Islam can be reported as a racist crime.

He is the most laid back live and let live person I know and he is thinking of moving abroad as he worries his teenage DDs are unsafe after dark in Stockholm.