They're not refugees, we're being invaded

[goonthenflameme]

I admit, the Syrians have got it bad. There is a war and those boys who haven't been shot by ISIL are being conscripted by the President.

But if life is that bad, why do they only want to go to Germany and if they can't go then then they'll go back to Syria.

Why are we now seeing people from Kazakstan joining the throngs?

I agree that people from Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria need help. But the thougsands and thousands of people coming through can't all be refugees in dire need of help if they are so picky as to where they will live.

They're invading Europe. And we are letting them. What's going to happen in 20 years? Will Christianity and western ways be swept under the carpet?

Not impressed with the Iman of the mosque with his waving hands and pointing fingers (seems very passive aggressive) but he has explained that not adhering to the segregation of men and women would mean a breach of God's will as written in the Koran. Now obviously this is simply one interpretation of the Koran, but it seems that non-legally qualified Imans are free to interpret rules in a way which allows them to extrapolate rules like this. There seems to be no thought about how this will prepare young people for the world of work in the UK, where of course they will be required to mix with women.

Apparently there is also a female only mosque, where men are not allowed! The female interviewed (she is the only female who has spoken one programme so far) says that she would not even have a coffee with a man to discuss for example Muslim culture on a professional basis, because she is a married woman.

Now there is a mosque on that is open to both men and women! Although all the women are covered up and the men wear western clothes.

There seems to be no thought on the part of any of the Muslims interviewed that British non Muslim women might be offended and/or hurt by their views. Its all about how they are discriminated against and they are unhappy with aspects of British "state interference" whose "draconian laws should leave them alone". The Muslim school profiled was disciplined by the EA for not teaching British values, but it seems that not discriminating against or offending women was not considered important enough to be included.

The matchmaker couple were LOVELY though.

Didn't see programme, think this may be the problem at times it does seem in some cases it is all about what the UK can do for them rather than making the effort to be more open minded or understand what has shaped the UK. What are they bringing to UK society?

Humans of New York (website/blog that posts to Facebook and Instagram) is currently featuring refugee stories that really powerfully answers a lot of questions that people have about the people that are part of this massive wave of movement. It explains why they are leaving their home countries, why they are heading for certain countries, in some cases, and why they can't go to other countries. I'd really, really recommend that people take a look.

Below are some quotes but look them up on Facebook/Instagram.

“My husband and I sold everything we had to afford the journey. We worked 15 hours a day in Turkey until we had enough money to leave. The smuggler put 152 of us on a boat. Once we saw the boat, many of us wanted to go back, but he told us that anyone who turned back would not get a refund. We had no choice. Both the lower compartment and the deck were filled with people. Waves began to come into the boat so the captain told everyone to throw their baggage into the sea. In the ocean we hit a rock, but the captain told us not to worry. Water began to come into the boat, but again he told us not to worry. We were in the lower compartment and it began to fill with water. It was too tight to move. Everyone began to scream. We were the last ones to get out alive. My husband pulled me out of the window. In the ocean, he took off his life jacket and gave it to a woman. We swam for as long as possible. After several hours he told me he that he was too tired to swim and that he was going to float on his back and rest. It was so dark we could not see. The waves were high. I could hear him calling me but he got further and further away. Eventually a boat found me. They never found my husband.” (Kos, Greece)

“For two weeks my tears didn’t stop. Nothing made sense. Why did these things happen to my family? We did everything right. Everything. We were very honest with everyone. We treated our neighbors well. We made no big mistakes. I was under so much pressure at this time. My father was in intensive care, and every day my sisters called and told me that ISIS was getting closer to our village. I went completely crazy. I fainted in the street one day and woke up in the hospital. I gave the rest of my money to a smuggler to help my sisters escape to Iraq. Now I only had 1000 Euro left and I was stranded in Turkey. My father recovered from his operation at this time. He called me and asked how I’d paid for his surgery. I told him that the money came from a friend. He asked if I had made it to Europe. For the first time ever, I lied to my father. I didn’t want him to feel guilty about his surgery. I told him that I was in Europe, and I was safe, and there was nothing to worry about.” (Kos, Greece)

(3/6)

“Before leaving for Europe, I went back to Syria to see my family once more. I slept in my uncle’s barn the entire time I was there, because every day the police were knocking on my father’s door. Eventually my father told me: ‘If you stay any longer, they will find you and they will kill you.’ So I contacted a smuggler and made my way to Istanbul. I was just about to leave for Europe when I received a call from my sister. She told me that my father had been very badly beaten by police, and unless I sent 5,000 Euro for an operation, he would die. That was my money to get to Europe. But what could I do? I had no choice. Then two weeks later she called with even worse news. My brother had been killed by ISIS while he was working in an oil field. They found our address on his ID card, and they sent his head to our house, with a message: ‘Kurdish people aren’t Muslims.’ My youngest sister found my brother’s head. This was one year ago. She has not spoken a single word since.” (Kos, Greece)

(2/6)

YY Misnomer. I thought of this thread earlier while reading some of the testimonies. Including this one:

“I wish I could have done more for her. Her life has been nothing but struggle. She hasn’t known many happy moments. She never had a chance to taste childhood. When we were getting on the plastic boat, I heard her say something that broke my heart. She saw her mother being crushed by the crowd, and she screamed: ‘Please don’t kill my mother! Kill me instead!’“ (Lesvos, Greece)

That was this father, talking about his daughter.

Same here, MGM. I find it hard to read these threads (this one one mn as opposed to HONY). Humans of New York has such massive reach that I really hope people look again and see people and not hoards of stereotypes. All the questions about why come, why Europe, why men, why families are there.

I know some people believe that the BBC are biased and will only report sympathetic news stories about the refugees/migrants but I haven't really believed this.
Just seen a video showing a mass anti-muslim demo in Germany, happened a few days ago, nothing on the UK news about this as far as I know, and I don't understand why.
Perhaps they're making it up and the video's not genuine?
it's on liveleak

A friend of mine who is German says that the mood is changing there.
Initially people were welcoming, now they are expressing concern both about the numbers of people coming in and the impact they are having on certain communities. She feels Merkel was popular but is now seen as having been naive.support for her is falling.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/im-young-die-chilling-last-6589673

Dear god ...

Puzzled I would have written a post along with the link but i just didnt know what to say.

It's hard isn't it, Helena - unfortunately some types of behaviour speak almost for themselves

Actually I wonder why the family didn't just do it when they were still in Syria; but then a lot of this isn't clear (why she was living apart from the family, whether they all left the country together, etc) so no doubt there's more yet to come out

I agree I reckon there will be an update once journos have found out more details.

Can I challenge the idea that Muslim women don't mix with non Muslim women? I met my friend Amara at college. I started talking to her because I liked her outfit. She made her own clothes and looked cool.
I went to her house loads of times. She was married young and a bit lonely. She used to cook for me a lot.
I lost touch with her and I still miss her.
There is a lady from my teaching course that is Muslim. No problem mixing with non Muslims. She has lots of pictures of her and her non Muslim friends on facebook.

In light of the news today that one of the Paris attackers arrived from Syria on a refugee boat into Greece earlier this year and then made his way across mainland Europe to France, I'd just like to give those of you who were on this thread a few weeks ago a chance to comment again on what I said here:

Well when people will not be drawn on finite numbers and they will not be drawn on a discussion about why it is not only right but ESSENTIAL to follow proper protocol and procedure to make sure that we are taking the most vulnerable people for the right reasons, then they may as well be saying 'just fling open the doors.

There really is no place for sentimental knee jerking here. What you need in a crisis is a level head and some clear thinking. Remember Little Red Riding Hood nursing the big bad wolf dressed as poorly grandmother?

Many people on this thread were of the opinion that we should just be welcoming unlimited numbers of migrants/refugees into the UK from Syria via mainland Europe and indeed from the Jungle at Calais, (irrespective of their country of origin or whether they technically qualified as refugees) on compassionate grounds and that stopping to process/vet them at that point was inhumane.

All concerns about national security and terrorism in the form of a Trojan Horse were pooh poohed as racist, hysterical and anti-Islamic, on this thread and many others.

I just wondered if you still feel the same now? David Cameron wanted to take Syrian refugees directly from the camps for very good reason and today I think we understand that reason a little more clearly.

3/7 of the attackers were from France, border control would really have stopped them.

"All concerns about national security and terrorism in the form of a Trojan Horse were pooh poohed as racist, hysterical and anti-Islamic, on this thread and many others."

In relation to my point above, they still are hysterical, anti islamic, and further that poorly educated,

The case you are talking about is the passport that was found, which btw is fake as recent news stories have said:

news.sky.com/story/1588180/paris-terror-attacker-used-fake-passport

Which more than anything else begs the questions of when and where this was checked. Or was the passport of someone originally a refugee then taken from them and duplicated?

These people are criminals and not deterred by borders, or rules, or anything else.

The vast majority of the people who were refugees were fleeing events like this that happened on a daily/weekly basis. Now should be the time that we have further empathy for them.

I'm quite sure he would have found another way in. Or they would have found another radical to take his place. YABU to suggest sacrificing 1000's of refugees on the off chance that you manage to snare one radical terrorist.

it seems that non-legally qualified Imans are free to interpret rules in a way which allows them to extrapolate rules like this. There seems to be no thought about how this will prepare young people for the world of work in the UK, where of course they will be required to mix with women

This is a huge problem, being able to interpret any of these texts to fit with personal agenda

I never EVER suggested that 1000s of refugees should be 'sacrificed' if by that you mean we should turn every single one away.

That is not what I said AT ALL.

I also want to know how we can successfully integrate people into society when their own traditions and cultures and religions don't permit it.

For instance, it seems to me most modern Brit families don't bat an eye or even ask the religion of their dc partners. It comes only when they get married and need the church as a venue..

We here of people converting. But does it work the other way? Can Muslims marry non muslims, would anyone care if they simply shirked the religion?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/15/terrorists-isis

v interesting article.

Leavemywings, I'm sure nobody means to put words into your mouth but what exactly do you propose in order to sort out the refugees from the terrorists? Without question it would mean tremendous suffering to the genuine refugees while due diligence was done on each individual claiming to be a refugee (think months if not years of holding them in camps to do that if it was even logistically possible). Or alternatively turning the majority away in case they are terrorists. What were your thoughts on finding these terrorists among the masses if refugees?