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They're not refugees, we're being invaded

826 replies

goonthenflameme · 23/09/2015 23:22

I admit, the Syrians have got it bad. There is a war and those boys who haven't been shot by ISIL are being conscripted by the President.

But if life is that bad, why do they only want to go to Germany and if they can't go then then they'll go back to Syria.

Why are we now seeing people from Kazakstan joining the throngs?

I agree that people from Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria need help. But the thougsands and thousands of people coming through can't all be refugees in dire need of help if they are so picky as to where they will live.

They're invading Europe. And we are letting them. What's going to happen in 20 years? Will Christianity and western ways be swept under the carpet?

OP posts:
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ender · 27/09/2015 12:53

Redlocks - in the UK those who are granted asylum can send for their nuclear family, i.e. wife/partner and children. I think exceptions can be made, such as elderly dependent relative. They'd have to pay for travel to the UK.
info from Red Cross document page 24

Indantherene · 27/09/2015 13:22

Somebody a long long way down the thread asked if any of the 20,000 had arrived here yet, and the answer is yes.

bbc news

The article says "When they arrive in the UK, they are met at the airport by a welcome team who take them to their new home. And the next morning, their personalised integration plan begins.

Just like anyone else, they can work and claim benefits. Everything about life in the UK is explained to them in briefings and classes.

School places are ready for their children, there is a GP already set up to take them on and, where necessary, specialists to work on their long-term health problems.

There are trips to the job centre and colleges for those ready to go back to work or study."

All very welcoming, and of course it is the only way it could work. Where are these spare homes and spare school places and GPs with space on their books? Anywhere with available work won't have either homes or school places, and somewhere with these has no work. Are they able to exceed infant class sizes to get these children into school? How will that go down in areas where people haven't been able to get a school place in any of their local schools?

beaucoupdemojo · 27/09/2015 13:28

I know that where I live some councils have said already that they have housing and medical care ready. I have already asked on a thread if these things are so readily availble, why hadn't they been given to people on housing and hospital waiting lists already?

We are told by the govt that there is no money, the country is skint etc. If that's true then where is the money coming from? If it's not true I want to know why homeless people here haven't been housed already and why some people are having to rely on food banks!

ender · 27/09/2015 13:41

We are told by the govt that there is no money, the country is skint etc. If that's true then where is the money coming from? If it's not true I want to know why homeless people here haven't been housed already and why some people are having to rely on food banks!
The money is coming from the Overseas Aid budget for the first year (and may be extended) so not using council funds.

LisbethSalandersLaptop · 27/09/2015 13:44

" We are told by the govt that there is no money, the country is skint etc. If that's true then where is the money coming from? If it's not true I want to know why homeless people here haven't been housed already and why some people are having to rely on food banks! "

I am quite sure it is not that simplistic, hardly an either/or situation is it?

beaucoupdemojo · 27/09/2015 13:51

Presumably new houses are not being built, so they must come from existing stock. If people struggle to see a GP or wait long times for operations as things are now, what happens to those people when lots of new people arrive?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/09/2015 14:01

All this talk of generous provision for the incomers is very interesting ... I realise the right to benefits is a complicated issue, but it's not quite the wholesale "they can't claim benefits" which some have described, is it??

ender · 27/09/2015 14:02

Presumably new houses are not being built, so they must come from existing stock
Maybe the refugees are placed in rented homes.

woodhill · 27/09/2015 14:21

I agree with other posters about the the UK and the potential for Islam to dominate and totally agree that employees are worried about accusations of racism so lines aren't drawn on criminality or bad attitudes such as disrespecting women in the workplace or expecting the host country to pander to their wants rather than trying to fit in or be magnanimous to others of different cultures other than their own.

Lweji · 27/09/2015 14:28

noeffingidea

Put the same number of British people in camps in the same conditions and I'd bet there would be rapes, violence, thefts.
Look at happens in the UK now. It's not a safe heaven anywhere and you are still more likely to be raped and abused by someone you know than a stranger.

Garrick · 27/09/2015 14:39

if these things are so readily available, why hadn't they been given to people on housing and hospital waiting lists already?

Largely because the money's coming from the EU disaster fund and the UN.

Garrick · 27/09/2015 14:40

Put the same number of British people in camps in the same conditions and I'd bet there would be rapes, violence, thefts.

YY, Lweji.

Garrick · 27/09/2015 14:43

Here you go. Appeal for private landlords of family homes:
"can offer a 3 year tenancy to enable the family to have some stability when they arrive; are able rent out the property for the Local Housing Allowance Rate in your area. The first 12 months of the rent will be paid for by the European Union under a scheme for placing vulnerable refugees."

Brioche201 · 27/09/2015 14:43

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

noeffingidea · 27/09/2015 14:47

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

overthemill · 27/09/2015 17:10

But surely I should therefore live in fear of being raped by any man to use your logic? 85000 women and 12000 men a year get raped - clearly mostly women. The Rotherham situation was awful , beyond words, but not all Mislim men are rapists. You cannot say that

overthemill · 27/09/2015 17:15

My comment above was in response to a racist comment now deleted by MNHQ. Thanks MN

beaucoupdemojo · 27/09/2015 17:54

Rotherham demonstrated that white children are expendable if it means the police can duck accusations of racism. It doesn't instill confidence that if we import men who believe their dominance over women is enshrined in their religion, that said police and other authorities will go all out to protect women's rights and freedoms, should the need arise.
Which brings me back to the assertion that we need to be certain who exactly is coming here and make being female as protected a characteristic as race and religion.

Mistigri · 27/09/2015 18:20

noeffingidea re assaults by migrants - quite often the "reports" you read (some of which have been linked on here) have only been "reported" on far-right blogs and probably never happened (because the British press would have been all over them if they had). However it would be astonishing if, among several million desperate people in refugee camps, there were no criminals at all.

Re benefits, asylum seekers cannot work until their application has been processed and they have received permission to remain temporarily or permanently in the UK. They receive relatively small amounts of money while awaiting an asylum decision. One would hope they would be housed close to other people from the same communities (or close to relatives who may already be in the UK), but ultimately there are plenty of places with available housing. The Midlands city where my nephew lives was famously reduced to selling council houses for £1 because it was better to have them occupied than empty. And even my mum's moderately prosperous hometown (central England army town) has a fair bit of empty property.

noeffingidea · 27/09/2015 18:29

mistigri I wouldn't know. I've never read a far right blog in my life, nor am I likely to.
Overthemill, where did I say all muslims men are rapists? I didn't.

noeffingidea · 27/09/2015 18:35

beaucoup you mustn't say that. Apparently it's being racist.

Scremersford · 27/09/2015 18:40

beaucoupdemojo make being female as protected a characteristic as race and religion

We really do need to do that. At the moment, racism is beginning to be used as an excuse for sexism and worst, investigating and prosecuting sexual harassment and sexual assault.

We know it is happening, theres no point in denying it. Women's suffering should not increase and their rights should not be reduced because immigrants come to our country. Its not racist to say that.

Theres also a difficulty in producing statistics to back this up, as Sweden shows, because second and third generation immigrants from certain cultures are not classified as immigrants, but may still share the culture. Read this report, it is relevant to the current situation since most Swedish immigration in recent years has come from Muslim countries such as Syria, Iraq and Somalia:

www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape

From that article:

"Since 2000, there has only been one research report on immigrant crime. It was done in 2006 by Ann-Christine Hjelm from Karlstads University...
It emerged that in 2002, 85% of those sentenced to at least two years in prison for rape in Svea Hovrätt, a court of appeals, were foreign born or second-generation immigrants...A 1996 report by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention reached the conclusion that immigrants from North Africa (Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia) were 23 times as likely to commit rape as Swedish men...Men from the rest of Africa were 16 times more prone to commit rape; and men from Iran, Peru, Ecuador and Bolivia, 10 times as prone as Swedish men.

A new trend reached Sweden with full force over the past few decades: gang rape -- virtually unknown before in Swedish criminal history. The number of gang rapes increased spectacularly between 1995 and 2006. Since then no studies of them have been undertaken.

One of the worst cases occurred in 2012, when a 30-year old woman was raped by eight men in a housing project for asylum seekers, in the small town of Mariannelund. The woman was an acquaintance of a man from Afghanistan who had lived in Sweden for a number of years. He invited her to go out with him. She obliged. The Afghan man took her to a refugee housing project and left her defenseless. During the night, she was raped repeatedly by the asylum seekers and when her "friend" returned, he raped her too. The following morning she managed to call the police. Sweden's public prosecutor has called the incident "the worst crime of rape in Swedish criminal history."

In an astounding number of cases, the Swedish courts have demonstrated sympathy for the rapists. Several times the courts have acquitted suspects who have claimed that the girl wanted sex with six, seven or eight men.

One striking incident occurred in 2013, in the Stockholm suburb of Tensta. A 15-year-old girl was locked up while six men of foreign extraction had sex with her. The lower court convicted the six men but the court of appeals acquitted them because no violence had occurred, and because the court determined that the girl "had not been in a defenseless position."

all major Swedish media reported on a brutal gang rape on board the Finnish Ferry Amorella, running between Stockholm and Ã…bo in Finland. Big headlines told the readers that the perpetrators were Swedish...On closer inspection, it turned out that seven of the eight suspects were Somalis and one was Iraqi. None of them had Swedish citizenship, so they were not even Swedish in that sense. According to witnesses, the group of men had been scouring the ferry looking for sex. The police released four of them (but they are still suspects) whereas four (all Somalis) remain in custody."

Of course, many immigrants come from cultures where the denigration of women is not part of their culture. I have never heard it said of immigrants from China, for example.

Replace some of the rules of Sharia law and certain Islamic thinking with a reference to race instead of women, and you see how offensive it can be towards women.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/09/2015 18:40

Put the same number of British people in camps in the same conditions and I'd bet there would be rapes, violence, thefts

That may or may not be so, but it's hardly the point since it's not British men who are attempting to emigrate in colossal numbers. As I've said, nobody's denying that we have plenty of home-grown criminals; they're simply saying it seems unwise to risk importing any more

It's certainly not sensible to assume all these migrants are criminals either, but again, unless we know who they are there's simply no way of weeding out the undesirables ... and as others have pointed out, some of the behaviour that's been shown hardly inspires confidence

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/09/2015 19:00

An interesting link, Scremersford - thank you for that

While on the subject of judicial indulgence, let's also not forget Adil Rashid, acquitted of raping a 13 year old he'd groomed on Facebook after he claimed he'd been taught at his Islamic school that women were worthless so didn't know any better, and that he hadn't known what he was doing was against the law

Is this the sort of thing we can expect to see again in the future? Hard to say - but the situation in Rotherham and other cases such as the one I've mentioned certainly suggest there's at least some reason for concern

noeffingidea · 27/09/2015 19:00

puzzled don't worry, it didn't happen anyway. Apparently it's all lies from right wing blogs. Phew!