They're not refugees, we're being invaded

[goonthenflameme]

I admit, the Syrians have got it bad. There is a war and those boys who haven't been shot by ISIL are being conscripted by the President.

But if life is that bad, why do they only want to go to Germany and if they can't go then then they'll go back to Syria.

Why are we now seeing people from Kazakstan joining the throngs?

I agree that people from Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria need help. But the thougsands and thousands of people coming through can't all be refugees in dire need of help if they are so picky as to where they will live.

They're invading Europe. And we are letting them. What's going to happen in 20 years? Will Christianity and western ways be swept under the carpet?

Saying Western culture is "binge drinking" and "MacDonalds" is the same as saying Islamic culture is "suicide bombing" and "paedophile gangs". Both are ridicuous suggestions

This

Re Tower Hamlets, Rahman was the first person since the 19th century to be convicted of "undue spiritual influence", the crime of using religion to influence votes. He convinced his Bangladeshi origin constituents, many of whom are uneducated, devout and non English speaking that they'd be in trouble with Allah if they didn't vote for him. How can anyone claim that was "not particularly Muslim"?

Women can wear what they feel comfortable in, from a bikini to a bhurka Unless they decide to wear PJs on the school run.

Well played Rebellious!

I'm pretty sure a bikini in a school run wouldn't be exactly met with approval. :)

'Women can wear what they feel comfortable in, from a bikini to a bhurka Unless they decide to wear PJs on the school run.'

Then they get a serious frowning, or tutted at. Even the Naked Rambler gets warned and asked politely to cover up.
Not physically assaulted, spat at or had stones thrown.
A tolerant society does have rules that most follow, the civilised bit is how those who break the rules are treated.

It seems we aren't as tolerant of some clothing

serviceman degraded

The mail article is a scary read.

Most Mail articles are.

What is distressing is that it was so obvious this would happen.

I know Munich and some of the smaller Bavarian towns. They are small, well-ordered, clean. They simply don't have the facilities to handle the numbers. In reality nowhere does.

It was more than obvious that the people able to make the journey were the most able, the ones with money, the men. There was also pretty strong evidence that the majority of migrants were not Syrian refugees but young men of working age who were coming to the UK for a better life. Fair enough. But they were mostly pretending to be from somewhere they were not.

A lot of this evidence was anecdotal so dismissed as racist and scaremongering. Some of it may indeed have been so - but not all - as we are seeing now.

What Angela Merkel did was the equivalent to having a party at her home for her friends and supporters - and then publishing the details on Facebook.

I don't think you are unreasonable to ask OP. There are many opinions in this debate.

There is a mail commentator stating their comments on rapes and requests to change behaviour of Germans were removed from the Guardian comments. Ffs it's like Rotherham again.

blue
There is a difference between refugees (or people) coming across Europe and the hundreds of thousands in camps still in the middle east

rebelliousscots no, noone's stopping them. Other people might not like it, but that doesn't mean it's not allowed.

I think the Rebellious is alluding to the PJs on the school run thread. (Which I found kind of witty.)

What Angela Merkel did was the equivalent to having a party at her home for her friends and supporters - and then publishing the details on Facebook.

I assume she was well intentioned, but she looks fairly naive, and the results are bad. The bickering within the EU is a worry.

The EU's ridiculous, slow and chaotic response to the ongoing and lengthy crisis has been a gift to the anti-EU brigade.
What's the point of it if all the posturing about unity and openness and benefiting the European community is shown to be smoke and mirrors on a daily basis?
Winter is on its way and people are going to start dying in the streets and at the fences, or doing whatever they need to survive, legal or not. Whilst the politicians play word-games.

I agree HeighHogh very worrying, actually.

OP, this perfectly explains why you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

I know that to some extent I am scaremongering - I don't mean to but I am now worried that something is out of control and that Europe really does not have any idea what to do next.

The refugees need help. People in Syria and other places desperately need help. I know I wasn't the only person in despair at news of atrocity after atrocity committed by ISIS. That is what needs to be tackled, (although I have no idea how).

The whole thing has become hysterical very quickly. No-one helped the Italians and Greeks to deal with it. Calais became dangerous and violence against lorry drivers escalated. Nothing was co-ordinated. Europeans blamed each other. Hungarians tried to impose European law and were vilified for it. Smaller states were struggling. Anyone who said anything about not welcoming "refugees" was attacked as being uncaring and racist. Constant references to the Jews in the 1940's, the Ugandan Asians and the ex-Yugoslavian refugees were made. I was involved with the ex-Yugoslavia refugees. It was not like this. Not at all.

Of course we have to help. We want to help - but this isn't way. And I admit that I am now worried. FFS there are razor-wire fences going up in Europe again. The countries of Europe which have so recently come through very difficult times and which are not rich are in trouble. There are people throwing rocks and storming border controls and troops responding with tear gas and water cannon. What have we done?

It's not the Syrian victims fault nor is it the eu rescuers fault. It's in the grey area of economic migrants and people smugglers, faking being Syrian that needs tackling as much as the political situation in Syria. There will be likely civil war in Syria, though no young fit men left for an uprising.

featherandblack - that is a good video. Thank you. It does put things in perspective. We do have to deal with this as a united Europe, (or better still a wider-world approach).

Unfortunately that is not how we are dealing with it. And it has to be admitted that the majority of young men at the borders are not Syrian refugees. That is part of the problem and one of the major factors that has led to the scenes of violence at the crossing points.

People keep linking to that video. It is bollocks. Not one substantiated fact or sources cited and naked agenda-pushing. It's Merkel's foolishness that will cause more drowned children, not Europe deciding that it doesn't want to be destroyed.

There will be likely civil war in Syria

Will be?
What do you think it's happening now?

In case you want to catch up on the last 4 years: www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26116868

Not one substantiated fact

Not a single one? surely a video is not supposed to quote references, but you may easily find what the facts are by googling a bit.