They're not refugees, we're being invaded

[goonthenflameme]

I admit, the Syrians have got it bad. There is a war and those boys who haven't been shot by ISIL are being conscripted by the President.

But if life is that bad, why do they only want to go to Germany and if they can't go then then they'll go back to Syria.

Why are we now seeing people from Kazakstan joining the throngs?

I agree that people from Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria need help. But the thougsands and thousands of people coming through can't all be refugees in dire need of help if they are so picky as to where they will live.

They're invading Europe. And we are letting them. What's going to happen in 20 years? Will Christianity and western ways be swept under the carpet?

Read some history then oaf.

Lamination And saying that comments where people judge the behaviour of entire religions/communities by a few experiences or a single interpretation of a religion - yup that's racist. That doesn't shut down debate. That is what reducing it all to simple stereotypes does.

No, its not racist. It takes far more than a statement expressed mildly that you don't like to constitute racism. You don't have the authority to state what constitutes racism and what doesn't. Racism in this country is quite strictly defined in legislation and the situation you are referring to - of someone not committing a racially aggravated crime or breaching civil law in any of the realms which it covers, is not racism. Labelling freely expressed speech to shut down an argument is however intolerant.

I would like to see some proper research, based on statistical and empirical analysis, with proper sources, about whether there is more harassment of women in the target country after increased immigration, and by whom. In Sweden for example, there is acknowledged to be greatly increased levels of rape, but the figures are distorted because second and third generation immigrants are counted as naturalised Swedes. When I mentioned this before on mumsnet, it was shut down by one poster who claimed that because the one of the reports in question was written by a researcher who had expressed some right wing views, it had no validity whatsoever.

Ultimately though, in wasting time arguing about these things, women, despite being half the population, are the ones overlooked, in increasing mens's access to jobs and money. Its so easy to sweep aside notions that women might not want to be at more risk of rape or harassment or even simply the influence of cultures which devalue women because they're inconvenient truths.

">t is possible to simultaneously be sad for the plight of refugees while concerned about the impact of their migration on the most vulnerable in our society, whether that's women and children or those economically worse off."

Yes of course it is. But our worries should not stop us implementing practical actions to help distressed refugees fleeing war.

*HighHogh" would you get on a shitty little dinghy with your toddler in a poxy inflatable life jacket and armbands for money?? I don't think it's like a westerner going to Saudi Arabia at all.

I don't have to. So I cannot say what I would do.

But it is evident that people do. Most are young men on an adventure. But there are some families. And, yes, I think people do take big risks for things they really want.

Heighhogh, what they really really want is not to be killed.

Individual, white Brits are no more responsible for the wrongs of generations of Christians than individual Muslims are responsible for the wrongs of an entire religion. (Insert other races/nationalities to suit)

International policy is complicated and we cannot say that because of what "we" did then we must do this now. How fr back are you going to go anyway? we have to deal with what we have now.

Besides you have just acknowledged that they 'have to' . Then you dismiss the refugee crisis as 'young men on an adventure'.
Make your mind up.

So you can't say exactly why the war in Syria is the British govts fault. O-kayyy.

I don't think you can dismiss the long term effects of colonialism as easily as that Bluejug

If you are that interested, do some reading Oaf.
You know, a book?
Or do you normally hang about on forums demanding that strangers fill in the gaps in your knowledge?

Scremersford - I agree with what you say about the definition of racism. It has come to mean anything that someone who disagrees with you wants it to mean. Real racism is abhorrent. That is not what is being discussed here.

I agree that resettlement in Europe is not the way forward. How many millions are we talking about. If Germany wants to take in an unlimited number that's up to them. They have the money and the space. It's a huge country and has far less people per square mile than the UK. ~But they must stop putting pressure on other countries to take in more.

Meh- just keep on making claims you can't substantiate 'blah blah.' Top quality debating, that.

Britain has invaded, conquered or sought to establish through force or other means all but 22 count die in the entire world I think British people should stay very quiet on the rights and wrongs of taking over other countries.

However, Britain also now has a standard of living, despite its faults, which is one of the highest the world has ever seen, with legally protected rights that ensure it. It has people clamouring to live here and a rapidly rising population. I think whatever Britain is doing, particularly when compared to other parts of the world, it should probably continue doing it and not stay quiet at all. But you could always go and live in a country outside the First World if you disagree, as you would presumably prefer the people there? No-one is stopping you!

www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-14703995

standclear- no you are right. I am not trying to dismiss them. What I am trying to say is that blaming me or you now for the world we happen to be born into does not help us deal with what we have now.

My I did rattle your cage didn't I?
Like I said, go read a book and quit stamping your foot at strangers who you don't agree with.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/01/trial-swedish-man-accused-terrorism-offences-collapse-bherlin-gildo

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq

oaf, I don't think it's simple, and a lot of it is quite subtle and covert, and via collaboration with the US. But have a look at these two articles as a start.

We will have to take them in. It is the only humane response. We will have to share our security and wealth, which we, lets face it, never did anything to deserve in the first place. We were just born lucky. Sure, some of them are liars and con artists, but it is unlikely we will ever be able to be 100% sure, and for most of us, it isn't our job or our business to try and identify which.

" Britain has invaded, conquered or sought to establish through force or other means all but 22 countries in the entire world "

" However, Britain also now has a standard of living, despite its faults, which is one of the highest the world has ever seen,"

Do you not see the connection between these two statements?

What I don't "have to do" Lisbeth is decide weather crossing the Med in life raft is worth it to me or not. Because I am already in Europe.

How do you know that someone else wouldn't take that risk for an economically better, materially more secure life? There is certainly a lot of evidence that they would. Some even with children.

And finally, yes, I think some of the young men that I see on the news every night are having the adventure of a lifetime. People under 25 are not terribly risk adverse (their frontal lobes are not fully formed yet), add the testosterone of being a man on top of it, and the human animal craves novelty, risk and adventure. I think it is very different for the minority of women we are shown with young children.

Wow. You really couldn't answer the question, could you?

Not getting the issue of closing for Eid to be honest

I left home at 17 and lave lived in toxteth, Wood Green, Tyseley, spark brook and currently still work in Birmingham- yes I have been harassed in the street- mainly by men wolf whistling and shouting idiotic remarks - it's called everyday sexism and men of all races indulge in it
My Muslim and Hindu colleagues at work regularly get racially insulted by the parents of the kids at the aka next door catholic primary for asking them not to block our car park etc - I put this down to them being cunts not to them being catholic
Not all of us lefties live in middle class idles

ffs oaf, if you want a history lesson, google is your friend. Or read the articles that RebelliousScot linked to.
But no you would rather hang around getting cross and attempting to give posters with whom you disgree a hard time.
Whatever.

Those crazy Syrians- fancy wanting to come to the uk when it's all the fault of the British anyway,