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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To request that all parents please ask

253 replies

SunshineAndShadows · 22/09/2015 20:20

... Before you let your child loose on a strange dog!

I was just out with my two hounds, both friendly beasts but bouncy when out walking and neither enjoy contact with children as they've had unpleasant DC experiences and will avoid them as much as they can.

Both dogs off lead but under control by me when I see a nearby mum release her toddler (very small, no older than 2) in my direction. He toddles forwards and I put a hand on each dog's collar so that I have full control (no time to clip on leads) and mum cheers him on.

I eventually have to do a crazy toddler knee block whilst holding both dogs and saying 'no' very firmly, which stops him in his tracks. Mum then comes over and stands there expectantly. I was wordless with astonishment and eventually she pulled him away saying 'oh dear, the doggies don't want to play'.

I felt like asking her if she also let him play with knives and electric sockets (but of course I didn't)

AIBU to expect that my dogs and I should be able to walk peacefully without attacks from uncontrolled children?

OP posts:
FifteenFortyNine · 22/09/2015 21:59

Everyone should know not to approach a dog or other animal they don't know without checking from the owner first.

But I would also request that dog owners wouldn't let their precious doggies run free esp next to a childrens play area. I don't care how well trained they are, dogs are unpredictable creatures. Kids as well of course.

Original poster
SunshineAndShadows · 22/09/2015 21:59

Thanks Ten

With respect leghoul you're incorrect
Dogs don't bite out of nowhere - they bite because previous learning experience has taught them that their owners cannot be relied upon to protect them from threatening stimuli. I protect my dogs from perceived threats. This is why the majority of bites occur with 'known' dogs. Parents repeatedly put dogs in situations where they're forced to tolerate dogs. Until one day the dog snaps

My dogs trust me implicitly. If they feel anxious they come to me. I'm just bloody sick of having to protect them from people who think their DC have a divine right to maul every dog they see.

OP posts:
christinarossetti · 22/09/2015 21:59

I don't think anyone is trying to cast you as irresponsible sunshineandshadows. Of course you sound like a very responsible dog owner.

I think people are agreeing with your point that 'no dog is ever completely 'safe'', and suggesting erring on the side of caution ie use of leads.

BolshierAyraStark · 22/09/2015 22:00

YANBU, no way should a child fuss a dog without first asking-if they are too small to do that then the parent should of course be asking. We used to have an Akita & as she looked rather like a cute bear we had this problem a fair bit, luckily she was happy to receive the attention.
I do think it's odd that you didn't say anything other than no-why didn't you perhaps mention to the mother that it wasn't the best way to approach dogs?

leghoul · 22/09/2015 22:01

OP I think you are much more reasonable than most dog owners I've encountered who have allowed their dogs to run up to children. But the attitude that it's the parent's responsibility when you've introduced the hazard into the child's environment is not realistic and not responsible in many other cases.

TenForward82 · 22/09/2015 22:03

Why is it the "child's environment"? I thought the OP was out in public, not strolling through a primary school.

Original poster
SunshineAndShadows · 22/09/2015 22:03

Since I had both my hands on my dogs collars - can someone please describe how a lead where my dogs would have had approx a metre and a half of freedom would have made them or the toddler any more safe? Confused

OP posts:
TenForward82 · 22/09/2015 22:04

Someone else mentioned "a children's play area". At no point has the OP said she was near one.

flanjabelle · 22/09/2015 22:06

Op I was just about to say that. You have more control over a dog at the collar than the end of a lead.

Original poster
SunshineAndShadows · 22/09/2015 22:06

I was at the edge of a car park. So not exactly an environment I'd send my two year old charging off in dogs or no dogs, and part of the reason I had my dogs under close control

OP posts:
FifteenFortyNine · 22/09/2015 22:06

It wasn't directed at OP for this situation but universally to all dog owners reading this thread

MrsHathaway · 22/09/2015 22:08

The only dogs I encountered when growing up were highly trained and highly obedient (farm dogs and police dogs). As a result I am pretty comfortable around them but I think I take their good behaviour for granted.

I am trying to teach my children to be safe around dogs but I don't really know how to do it, so thank you for the resources signposted upthread; I'll give them a look.

Quickly, though, I have taught them that the way to show a dog you don't want to "play" is to turn your back on him and don't make eye contact. Is that right? It seems to be working so far but I don't know if that's coincidence!

StillFrankie · 22/09/2015 22:08

I have a similar problem with kids coming to play with my assistance dog - oh look at the nice doggy, go and play with the nice doggie and give mummy peace Hmm

christinarossetti · 22/09/2015 22:09

I meant leads as a general point. I completely agree that in this situation the mother of the toddler was in the wrong.

I think dogs should be on leads when out in public except in designated 'lead free' areas in parks.

I know this isn't a popular view amongst the dog owning community, but I've honestly had enough frights and bites from out of control dogs to not be able to see another way to minimise risk.

BlackeyedSusan · 22/09/2015 22:10

works both ways. children should not be allowed to approach dogs without the owners and parents permission. dogs should not be allowed to approach children without parents permission.

there are a hnadful of stupid people out there who give each group a bad name.

toddlers are bloody unpredictable. dogs that have just had their ears pulled or thier eye poked are likely to be unpredictable too. it really does not take much common sense to work that out. Sadly, common sense is not so common.

TenForward82 · 22/09/2015 22:12

there are a hnadful of stupid people out there who give each group a bad name.

Exactly.

Original poster
SunshineAndShadows · 22/09/2015 22:13

Are you in North America Chrustna? Dog parks don't really exist in the UK - and easy access to off lead exercise is potentially one of the reasons why british dogs are comparatively well behaved. North American visitors to my part of the UK often comment on how comparatively well behaved British dogs are.

OP posts:
Original poster
SunshineAndShadows · 22/09/2015 22:16

Sorry Christina
Bloody phone

OP posts:
Patchworkpatty · 22/09/2015 22:20

Ten years ago, whilst camping our lovely Pointer , who we had had since a puppy was with our 8 children in our tent. He was at a familiar camp ground where he was known and adored by owners and all regular campers. He was asleep in our tent and our youngest (his pack) were playing in the tent. Suddenly a four year old on the end of a young Labrador is pulled into our tent by the dog and starts jumping all over our youngest. Before we knew what was happening the four yr old has been bitten by our dog. We sadly had no choice. Campsite owners tried to play it down but as poor little girl has 1 inch gash on her face we asked the police to come. It was discussed (I was hysterical) child taken to hospital and stitched up. Dog expert (police) was called as local policeman didn't want to make a call on it. Expert explained that our dog would be taken to a pound, a magistrate would decide if he had to be destroyed. Best case scenario, he would never be allowed in a house with an under 16yr old ever again, would never be allowed off a lead for a run. (He used to run for miles) and would have to be muzzled for rest of his life. We couldn't imagine his life like that. He was so loving, so obedient (wouldn't breathe without permission!). He had one moment, where as a DOG he thought he was protecting his 'young' from unprovoked attack. We had no choice but to let the lovely, kind sympathetic dog police handler take him to be destroyed. We lost a member of our family because some FUCKING STUPID parents thought it ok to let there small child run around with an out of control puppy/young dog. Worst part was... They kept texting us saying we shouldn't worry, child had made full recovery. Dogs are domesticated wolves. Parents need to remember that no matter how 'lovely' the dog is. We have had dogs all our lives. That upset means we will never have another, too upsetting.

christinarossetti · 22/09/2015 22:21

No, I'm in the UK.

I meant designated 'lead free' areas in local parks, the opposite to 'dog free' areas.

One of our local parks (where dog training classes are held) introduced a strict division between dog owners and non dog owners in the cafe after loads of incidents. Works really well. I'd be in favour of more segregation between dog lowners/walkers and those who don't want to be near them in public places.

TooOldForGlitter · 22/09/2015 22:31

The child had no more right to the public space than the OP and her dogs. OP exercised control and prevented a situation, the stupid parent of the kid didn't, yet so many posters are positively revelling in the chance to trot out the same old stories about picnic robbing, pissing, slobbering dogs. This OP isn't about that. Don't you have enough dog bashing threads without trying to turn this one around too??

christinarossetti · 22/09/2015 22:36

Of course people are agreeing that OP was in the right.

It's the same when 'dog bashing threads' start with an OP about 'picnic robbing, pissing and slobbering dogs', and the dog lovers bound in (excuse the pun) to defend Dogginess in all it's forms.

I can't imagine that OP started an dog thread in AIBU (knowing that she was of course being utterly reasonable) thinking that it would be over in 2 posts.

Justaboy · 22/09/2015 22:37

One on stupid parents.

I was waiting at a railway station a bit out in the sticks where there were a couple there who had a child, girl she was about 4 maybe 5 years old holding a Rottweiler on its lead on the platform. They let her go some distance along said platform by herself. A train came along must have been doing 80 at least and the dog went for the train. I don't quite know what happened but i think the dog just brushed past the front of the train and pulled the little girl so close the platform edge its a wonder she wasn't pulled under it. I at that stage just looked away.

They then called the girl and dog, didn't run up to her just called her and sauntered off saying the the bloody train must have been cancelled.

A couple of railway men working on the opposite platform just stood there in disbelief shaking there heads.

One said, We warned the mother about the girl with the dog and told them the next train didn't stop here but all we got was a mouthful.

The poor driver must have shat himself seeing that go on!.

Original poster
SunshineAndShadows · 22/09/2015 22:37

Oh Patchwork I'm so so sorry
That's exactly the type of scenario I'm so afraid of - children can be so unpredictable. It's why I'm sad that me being vigilant has been interpreted as my dogs being aggressive - they aren't but no dog is completely predictable when provoked and I want to protect them as much as I can
Flowers

OP posts:
christinarossetti · 22/09/2015 22:39

Yes, in this situation OP was in control of her dogs.

The problem is that in many situations in public places, either owners aren't in control of their dogs or - like patchworkpuppy's situation - parents aren't in control of their children's behaviour around dogs.

Do you think people actually 'revel' in taking their child to A & E with dog bites?