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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want to holiday without my stepkids??

146 replies

howtodowills · 22/09/2015 13:47

StepDs are 5&8 and My DS is 5.

I've done a few hols with the girls now and it's always a nightmare for me.

I do nearly all of the arranging and planning of the hol and although DP tries when we are away I do the lions share of the oganising (meals/tidying up etc).

His DDs are really great kids however his eldest really struggles with sharing her dad which leads to me constantly being pushed out of the way (physically ie her barging infront of us if we are walking along holding hands/always trying to seat us at opposite ends of the table and getting the hump and crying if her dad says he wants to sit next to me.) Also if we ever try and chat just the two of us (eg. over dinner if we start up a grown up conversation) she will deliberately butt in "daddy daddy....when i was in this play...". If me and her dad laugh and joke about eg. me taking the mickey out of him she huffs off and says i'm being mean, even when her dad explains he likes me joking around and it's just playful and not mean... And god forbid he comes over to chuck a ball around in the pool with me or anything, then she will start fake drowning or cry because she has "water in her eye"... (she is a competent swimmer who will love jumping in and getting splashed any other time.)

Anyway - this all makes for a pretty stressful holiday if i want to spend any time with my DP at all as she hates it so much and scowls, cries, huffs off etc etc. We try and do conversations etc the 5 of us so nobody feels left out but sometimes i would like to stroll through the town of an evening holding DPs hand, or just have a conversation at dinner about random stuff as "normal" couples do.

We have talked to her a lot about it and she says she thinks her dad loves me more than her. That is the main issue. She really likes me, tells me a lot she loves me etc etc and has asked to come and spend time with me at our house (she lives 70% with her mum) even when her dad is away so it's not me as a person who's the problem, just me and her dad.

Anyway - i came to the conclusion on our last holiday that I didn't want to go away with her again until things are better. I work really hard and need the breaks and want to have fun with my DS and having her theere makes it not fun.... plus i have the extra hard work of 3 kids instead of just my one. I broached this with DP and he thinks it is giving in and we should push through it and also says there isn't much point being together if we can't holiday together....

We have a holiday coming up (oct half term) which we booked a year ago and I am dreading it. I don't want to take her place and can quite happily cope with giving a little girl freedom to come and cuddle, talk to her dad whenever she likes but being physically and mentally pushed out is just driving me up the wall.

HELP!!!!!!!!

AIBU to say no more hols until we get this issue sorted?

OP posts:
Shonajay · 22/09/2015 18:17

My eldest sons father did this to him all the time, took his and his new wife's kids away and not him. He wasn't badly behaved or anything, just she didn't want him there. It's totally screwed him up emotionally.

On the other hand, my new husband and I took him on honeymoon with us, as we came as a package. Kids have issues- these kids are now yours too, so you need to work through it, not exclude her. Can you imagine how much worse that could make things?

hampsterdam · 22/09/2015 18:39

Completely understand where you're coming from, I find holidays with my dss stressful, we never do a week because I know it would be too long for all of us.
I take my ds on holiday just us two, as we did before I married dh. Dh and I have a week or a couple of weekends just us. As much as I would love to go away with ds and dh without dss I wouldn't dream of even hinting at this to dh.
Ywnbu to say no more holidays together for now and you go away with your ds, ywbu to suggest a holiday with your ds without his girls.

Spartans · 22/09/2015 18:48

shona the op isn't suggesting her and her DP take her son away without the dsd.

Calminacrisis · 22/09/2015 19:59

OP, you could be me. It's a tough one but I have to say I don't think you can have holidays involving some children of a blended family without including all, otherwise you are storing up problems for years to come. Best of luck!Flowers

shebird · 22/09/2015 20:39

I can understand your frustration as holidays are such a precious time that we all look forward to so much. Firstly, I think you need to lower your expectations a little as holidays with 3 young kids in any family can be hard work and probably not the holiday you want it to be.

If your plan is to park the DCs in kids club all day then they are bound to want your DPs attention when they emerge. You say the kids like to play together? How about spending just time altogether having fun. This might help Dsd and her sister to feel safe and secure in your happy family unit. It seems like you are all making unrealistic demands on each other for one to one special attention. You cannot expect to achieve this for everyone on a one week family holiday.

sleeponeday · 22/09/2015 22:36

I don't think you're unreasonable to want this at all. You're human, and it sounds hard work, infuriating, and completely unreasonable.

But.

She is eight. She's genuinely upset about this. Being left out of a holiday will just reinforce her fears. That's not going to help.

What will help is a preplanned line of attack from you and her father, with an absolute party line where you treat this exactly as if aimed at her sister with some cases, or her own mother if they were still married with another. So she interrupts? You ignore her and continue with the conversation as if she hasn't said anything, and if she persists, he sternly tells her interrupting is rude, to be quiet, and to wait her turn. She interrupts flirting teasing with "defences" of Daddy? Daddy asks her how old she is, and then if she really feels it is her place to interfere in an adult conversation? No? Then she had better consider carefully before she does it again, because she is being rude and it's unacceptable. She gets into a play fight you are having by staging a drama? With a weather eye on her actual welfare, obviously, you completely ignore her and carry on, and if she asks why, your DH bluntly tells her why. Calmly, factually and without accusation, but saying it's boring and silly to try to stop him having fun with other family members, and she knows how loved she is so he will not allow her to stop him loving other people, too. If she starts on, "you love her more than me!" he simply says that's too ridiculous to engage with and love doesn't work that way. There's enough for everyone - or does her loving her mummy mean she can't also love him? Does her loving you steal some of her love from him? Now stop being daft, because the conversation is over.

The thing is, this stuff is not exclusive to stepfamilies. It's common in all families. But when there is a stepfamily, suddenly the stakes for the adults are higher, the guilt is off the charts, and people stop remembering that actually, it's not only bad for little kids to get away with this crap, because as Coffee says they grow up repeating this successful strategy, they don't even want to get away with it, most of the time. It's the adults who are attributing masses of involved emotional baggage to it. From the kid's perspective, you're just someone her father loves very much. Plenty of mothers (and fathers) are resented by their own children on this basis, and almost all siblings. The problem is that we aren't equipped to cope, when a stepfamily, as adults. So we make a meal of it.

This child loves you. She loves being with you. She just wants to feel Dad loves her, and because she is both small and jealous she is trying to steal what she wants through manipulative means, because at some level, she is being indulged. Nice reassurance is worthless without firm discipline (and by that, I mean treating her rudeness as rudeness, and ignoring where you can, and otherwise being loving and normal with her). Dad is not going to make her feel better by seemingly not loving her enough to be her Dad and disciplining her fairly and reasonably - as long, of course, as he also plans special time with both girls, alone and together, where he makes it clear he loves her to bits (and, of course, continues to be loving to her in front of you).

Learning to share is hard. For everyone. This is being turned into a bigger drama than it needs to be because of a step situation. I've seen this so many times amongst my friends now, and it never fails to amaze me. She's just a kid being a kid - it's an effective, constructive, positive discipline requirement. No more, no less, IMO.

sleeponeday · 22/09/2015 22:38

Oh, and Flowers. Because whatever anyone says, you sound a really nice stepmother to me. A shitty one wouldn't be so worried about how to handle it. They'd just not bother with her.

sleeponeday · 22/09/2015 22:44

In terms of other discipline I have called her out eg. "DSD, why are you pulling faces at me"? when she's doing that behind her dad's back but I don't discipline in the same way I do my DS which would be "If you speak to me in a rude way again you will be going to time out." Do you think I should? I've always thought it was better to leave him to do that.

YES. Treat her exactly as you would your own. Honestly, she doesn't want to get away with this! She needs to feel secure, and that the adults know what they're doing. Remember how the ineffectual teachers at school made you feel, compared to the tough but kind, fair and effective ones? That.

wallywobbles · 23/09/2015 07:24

In this situation I wouldn't go on the holiday if I were you. I'd leave your DP to it and if she asks why I'd be honest. She never sees the downside of her behavior. Presumably she'd prefer it if you and DS came.

My DDs 9&10 were pissed off when DP came for 5 of our 10 day holiday. They laid the ground rules. But it turned out that it was more fun when he was there than when he wasn't. I don't think we will be having that particular issue again.

Saltedcaramel4 · 23/09/2015 07:34

In your shoes I'd let the three go on holiday together and I stay at home. Essentially so that 1) DH learn to take full responsibility 2) you get down time 3) the girls have some time with DH alone (without you) so that they can appreciate you when you do actually join them.

You also need To make the eldest feel happier and more secure. Give her lots of attention

Be honest with them about your reasons. Also arrange a mix of child free holidays and child orientated hols in the future

Ledkr · 23/09/2015 07:45

It will probably be nice for both kids to have some time alone with their tespective parents.
Dd was 4 when she met my new bf (now my dh) she is 13 now and has at times given him hell.
Holidays can be pretty fraught as we are all away from home, tired and with huge expectations.
We just deal with it but do find time once or twice a year for a short break just us and I also take dd away alone as well to stay with my friend or a weekend city break.
It's just how life is with kids I think.

Saltedcaramel4 · 23/09/2015 08:30

She just sounds very insecure and you need to remedy that

Grapejuicerocks · 23/09/2015 08:36

Only read a few pages but here are my thoughts.

  1. Her tactics are working so she will always continue this. You said you see her little sad face and walk away. Fantastic she'll do that next time. You let her get away with it. Fantastic it's working. She'll do it again.

Of course when he pulls her up on it, she'll sulk until she gets her own way again. It's always worked in the past.

  1. You say that she likes spending time with you. But she sees you going off with ds. You know that is so she gets time with dh. She may see it that you prefer spending time with him and feels that's a further rejection.
  1. You rarely discipline her, leaving that to her dad. She may see that as not being a proper part of the family as she is treated differently to ds again. Also her dad and you both treat her differently. She may feel that if she was a real part of the family you'd all act exactly the same way towards and from each other. She doesn't feel secure in her part in the family. You act differently to your ds than you do to her.

I would start disciplining her yourself. Explicitly say, there are the same rules for all of you kids. I see you all as my children and we are all equal and need to be treated the same. When she monopolises dh, tell her that everybody is important in the family. It's your/sisters/ds turn now.

Emphasise the fairness angle. Be consistent. Tell her she is no more and no less important than any of the 5 of you and you all get to spend time with each other. It isn't a competition. In other words, help her feel secure that she is a truly paid up member of the family where you all parent and have dh's time equally.

You do need to continue taking them on holiday bit I don't see what is wrong with taking an additional one without any kids at all. If they go away with mum too, then you can make it "fair to ds" by taking him away with you too.

howtodowills · 23/09/2015 09:32

Thank you so much everyone who has posted.

SUCH useful advice and in real conflict with lots of things I have read before on MN ("It's not your job to discipline HIS kids" etc etc) but much more in keeping with the more current (and realistic) view of step parenting which I have read about!

DP and I had a good chat about it last night and i shared all the ideas on this thread. He agreed with virtually all of them and offered some other ways we could handle situations. It was a great conversation and with some very practical and productive solutions.

Mostly we just cannot allow her to continue dominating everyone's time.

I look back on our last holiday and cringe at how ill equipped we were to deal with things and when we tried to discuss it at the end of the day we just ended rowing as we were tired and het up after her bedtime "routine".
There were times when she would storm off into the holiday house and scream and bang on the windows "DAAAADDDDD" until he came up. We do need to get better at ignoring this behaviour - although it's so hard as i don't want to reinforce her belief that she's not loved as much as the others.

OP posts:
Enkopkaffetak · 23/09/2015 09:56

I was that 8 year old girl almost 40years ago.. My then stepmother succeeded in a very similar plan. Result was my relationship with my father was deeply damaged. I felt I was not important to him at all. I was an adult before I build a relationship with him again.

I DO understand as an adult what you are saying however I would suggest holiday 1week seperate withyour own children. (Just dont have one go to Greece and the other to London to stay at a relatives flat -yes that was one of their solutions ) both spend a week with your children then a week together all of the family. You and dh takr time for weekend aways just tue two of you.

The thing is. No matter how many times you tell her you love her her dad loves her etcetc. She feels insecure in this. So dont give her a way to feel even more insecure. Work around it all and find a way that works for all of you.

Indantherene · 23/09/2015 11:04

Not read the full thread but honestly the OP describes my DD to a T. She isn't a stepchild to either me or DH but she hates it when we try to talk, and interrupts with stupid comments. She wants my full attention all the time.

Indantherene · 23/09/2015 11:04

She is also 8

tootsalina · 23/09/2015 11:35

OP you could be me 5 years ago. DSD was exactly the same as yours. DP was out of his depth with her and terrified of upsetting her. She even used to cry at night so she could manipulate her way in between us in bed Shock smiling at me through her crocodile tears when she had succeeded and DH had fallen asleep.
It all came to a head after a horrible holiday like the Ops and I almost called time on the relationship because I couldn’t deal with her any more. After a tearful conversation we both decided to take a hard line with her and did most of what has been advised above. We laid out a set of rules to all our kids (with her in mind but not singling her out) and told them that we would not have another holiday until they could follow them.
Well the results were amazing. After a few weeks of stroppiness and sulks she got the message.

She is 12 now and the loveliest sweetest girl. I adore her and can’t believe we didn’t act sooner.
It’s worth persevering with but you really have to get tough and be united.

tootsalina · 23/09/2015 11:37

And now we always have a holiday all together and separate holidays with our own kids. Not expensive but staying with family or cheap seaside trips.
Kids need time with their own parent away from the step family.

howtodowills · 08/10/2015 14:17

just to update those who offered really helpful advice that it seems to be working. We are firm with DSD and aligned on our approach. She is getting time alone with dad and time with her sis and dad.

Still feeling incredibly uneasy about the upcoming holiday but things do seem to be improving slightly.

Their mother is still a pain in the but that's another thread....!!

OP posts:
GoblinLittleOwl · 08/10/2015 15:39

Poor little girl.

Grapejuicerocks · 08/10/2015 22:58

Glad that you are both on the same page and tackling this together.
Whatever boundaries you put in place, she will test for quite a while. She may even get worse to begin with, as she knows one of you has always given in eventually. Stay strong, be consistent and eventually things will get better as she feels secure with you both.

If only that advice was applicable to her mum...

Hope the holiday goes well. Thanks for updating. Let us know how you get on.

fernvilla · 31/03/2018 10:11

If you can’t cope then don’t take them on holiday. There’s no obligation that you have to.

My husband and I have pleanty of holidays every year. We’ve not take kids away until recently. Two kids in their young teens - twice now. It worked out fine. If I wasn’t happy about it or they made me feel uncomfortable then there would be no way I worked take his kids on holiday. But as it is, it was fine. They were good and holiday was good fun. I know they hate and dislike me, because that’s what their mum teaches them. However, as long as they behave appropriately and respectful with me then that’s fine. Otherwise no way would I take them on holiday.

Lethaldrizzle · 31/03/2018 10:16

Can't you stay in a hotel so at least the burden of work is taken off you and then just have fun with your son. Let his kids have as much as their dad as they want to do there's no competition. Its just a week.

butternutsquashe · 31/03/2018 10:18

I couldn’t be bothered with her attention seeking either if I’m honest. You deserve a break.

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