To want to holiday without my stepkids??

[howtodowills]

StepDs are 5&8 and My DS is 5.

I've done a few hols with the girls now and it's always a nightmare for me.

I do nearly all of the arranging and planning of the hol and although DP tries when we are away I do the lions share of the oganising (meals/tidying up etc).

His DDs are really great kids however his eldest really struggles with sharing her dad which leads to me constantly being pushed out of the way (physically ie her barging infront of us if we are walking along holding hands/always trying to seat us at opposite ends of the table and getting the hump and crying if her dad says he wants to sit next to me.) Also if we ever try and chat just the two of us (eg. over dinner if we start up a grown up conversation) she will deliberately butt in "daddy daddy....when i was in this play...". If me and her dad laugh and joke about eg. me taking the mickey out of him she huffs off and says i'm being mean, even when her dad explains he likes me joking around and it's just playful and not mean... And god forbid he comes over to chuck a ball around in the pool with me or anything, then she will start fake drowning or cry because she has "water in her eye"... (she is a competent swimmer who will love jumping in and getting splashed any other time.)

Anyway - this all makes for a pretty stressful holiday if i want to spend any time with my DP at all as she hates it so much and scowls, cries, huffs off etc etc. We try and do conversations etc the 5 of us so nobody feels left out but sometimes i would like to stroll through the town of an evening holding DPs hand, or just have a conversation at dinner about random stuff as "normal" couples do.

We have talked to her a lot about it and she says she thinks her dad loves me more than her. That is the main issue. She really likes me, tells me a lot she loves me etc etc and has asked to come and spend time with me at our house (she lives 70% with her mum) even when her dad is away so it's not me as a person who's the problem, just me and her dad.

Anyway - i came to the conclusion on our last holiday that I didn't want to go away with her again until things are better. I work really hard and need the breaks and want to have fun with my DS and having her theere makes it not fun.... plus i have the extra hard work of 3 kids instead of just my one. I broached this with DP and he thinks it is giving in and we should push through it and also says there isn't much point being together if we can't holiday together....

We have a holiday coming up (oct half term) which we booked a year ago and I am dreading it. I don't want to take her place and can quite happily cope with giving a little girl freedom to come and cuddle, talk to her dad whenever she likes but being physically and mentally pushed out is just driving me up the wall.

HELP!!!!!!!!

AIBU to say no more hols until we get this issue sorted?

I agree, all children should be disciplined the same way, consistancy. She sounds quite naturally insecure, when she is with her dad, you might need to step back and allow her to have that time with her dad, to catch up, to talk to him etc.

:) we used to do a lot of praising corbyn but it didn't stop her being like she was and then i felt she was getting thoroughly overindulged and praised for just being "normal" and i didn't think it was fair on her sis and my DS who deal much better with everything. Sometimes it feels like the whole "blended family" revolves around her and how she's feeling.

I don't know if your finances would stretch to this but why don't you get a babysitter while you are on holiday so you can go out for dinner together or even try and go somewhere that has kids clubs for a few hours a day so that you & DP can spend some time together? Maybe better than no holiday at all. We do that sometimes when we need a bit of a break too. A family holiday doesn't have to entail spending 24/7 with the kids imo!
Sorry, no advice about the underlying issues but hope you will find a way to help her and resolve her behaviour.

How well do you get on with DSD's mum? I'm assuming that DS is yours with your DP, and that therefore it was a while ago since your DP separated from his X. Was the separation reasonably amicable or very bitter?

TBH I would be quite concerned about your DSD. If the split was a while ago she doesn't seem to have come to terms with it very well at all. Children can often be resistant to new partners and change, fantasising about life going back to what it was, but what seems to be the case doesn't seem to be any resentment about you, but lack of time with her father. She sounds desperately insecure, and it's not uncommon or unreasonable of her to manifest those feelings through manipulative behaviour as she's doing. That's the only tools an 8-year-old really has when they don't have a) the practical ability to steer their own lives, and b) the emotional maturity to understand what they feel, let alone express it and deal with it appropriately.

If you get on well with DSD's mum, I'd consider broaching the idea of therapy for DSD. I'd also tell your DP that one of the things he can do to improve things is to take on more responsibility of the organising so that DSD can see him (not you) prioritising time/activity with her. If she sees you doing everything that's just going to consolidate her feelings that daddy isn't really that bothered.

Difficult to say exactly how to do this especially when I don't know the situation in detail...

But I'd be tempted to start off, perhaps just you and her (if not with DP as well, which could also be good), talking about how you know how hard it must be for her (I know you've done this before, but may need reinforcing?), and get her to tell you what it feels like when she sees you together.

Then gently help her to understand that it isn't going to stop, and that you and DP are going to keep being together, but that you get that that's hard, and you really want to help DSD with how it makes her feel. That you care about how it makes her feel, and that you will help her.

Ask/find out what she likes best of all in terms of attention (book/game with dad? You?). Make sure she gets lots of it. Talk to her about what she can do when she feels

Be really specific about what is NOT working, and why. And prepare her for how you will respond to it. Could DP/you say something like "I'm holding howto's hand at the moment. I still love you very much and will do XYZ (game or whatever) with you again at X time". So you don't stop holding hands because she says so, but you do reassure her.

And maybe try to think up a way of working in a system of rewards for, e.g., asking in an agreed way for what she wants/talking to you about how she feels.

Obviously there are some caveats to all this. When she's really distraught about something, obviously letting go of DP's hand to help is crucial! But for the stuff that's causing problems, as little response as possible whilst being kind, firm, and not allowing it to stop contact with each other.

Just ideas...

Bedtime. Ignore her completely. Sit and chat, do not make eye contact. Shes invisable!! It works for DD here. She hates it, but gets the message.

booboos - i like the idea you suggested. on sat morning i took out the little 2 for an hour so she could have time with her dad and after lunch he took just his DDs out while i took out DS but it didn't help matters as on sunday she was back to her old tricks. I guess i have to persevere and make it a "thing".... I like the idea on hols of each child getting 30mins alone with their bio parent and getting to choose what to do. Really like that idea.... Would also mean that when I was with DS the girls would have their dad to themselves for an extra 30mins.

Just seen your most recent post.

Sounds really, really hard.

Sometimes reinforcing/rewarding being "normal" can be a good stepping stone.

Probably just us as we aren't that lovey dovey, especially when with young kids but on holiday with our kids 8 and 5, it would never occurred for us to have romantic time, walking hand and hand etc as I found just having lively young kids got in the way. Holidays then just weren't really about us and our needs as much so I find it strange that you still expect this with 3 youngish children tearing about. Ours always wanted to be sat beside us at meals, holding our hands etc. But as I said we aren't lovey dovey types.

Your separate holidays sounds ideal for the moment. Maybe try the odd weekend in the UK now and then to test the waters to see how the kids are getting on.

I found the discipline part the hardest.

You feel you should apply the same standards to all of the DC's, but when they are dealing with things differently it is hard.

Can you have a sit down as a family before you go & set some ground rules?

1. We will all get up at 8am
2. 8.30pm is bedroom time for DC's.
3. We don't butt-in on other peoples conversations.

Then ask if there are any they would like to add. Maybe DSD would like an hour of one-on-one time with her Dad every day?

Maybe 1/2 an hour of just children time, and 1/2 an hour of just adult time?

Then ask them to agree to the rules, if they want to go on holiday, and get them to sign a sheet, and if there is any misbehaving, you can bring out the sheet in a jokey way, and "remind" them.

It may make the holiday a bit more regimented than you would like, but it sounds like it will probably be a one off.

It definitely gets easier, I've come out the other end, relatively sane!

The other thing is, is she able to entertain herself, like read a book, puzzle, etc? I know my DD struggles with this, and it may be this rather than a seep parent issue.

Don't forget if DSD1 gets "special time" with dad then DSD2 should get exactly the same.......

I really feel for you and it sounds as if you are truly doing the very best you can, YANBU for feeling that way about the holiday, but you know it will never happen (I don't think you'd let it if push came to shove). Rightly or wrongly I think you both need to be firmer with her, some of the behaviour is rude and I kind of think she is doing it because she is getting away with it so the cycle repeats.

Thanks corbyn - this is exactly the stuff i have done. her and her dad even had a little thing where if he ever gave me a kiss or a hug he would then immediately look at her and wink and smile (his way of saying daddy still loves you too.) I have to say i found it incredibly irritating but can't deny i thought it was a good idea!!

I talk to her a lot about how it feels and how i understand etc etc but that daddy and I won't be splitting up. And i know that its hard and how can we make it easier for her - She tells me she wants daddy to live in a different house and for us to split up but for her to come over all the time and hang out as it's really fun and she likes the things i do for her etc etc!!

Lady - there is a kids club which normally she would be well up for but i can't help thinking this time round she won't go just so she can stay with us. She used to go off and play when friends came over with their kids but now she just sits with the grown ups and glues herself to her dad. I know i can't stop her from doing this and it wouldn't be fair to but it does somewhat change the dynamic at BBQs which used to be about the kids all going off and playing and the grown ups having a laugh!

pounding - she is in counselling now but has only had one session so far. I have bought her some books about separation which she really enjoys reading and have bought her a notebook where she can write down her feelings and we can talk about them together. Unfortunately her mum isn't really very emotionally intelligent so I think lots of how she sees things is down to her mum. They split 2.5 years ago and I came onto the scene about 6 months after. Initially me and her dad saw eachother with the kids occasionally and as friends but then her mum decided to say that i was daddys girlfriend. It continues now and things have come out in conversation such as whenever she tries to call her dad and he doesn't pick up (he's at work/running/phone in different room) her mum will say "oh he's probably busy with howto - so she then feels i'm stopping her getting to her dad.) Her mum talks a lot to her about her own relationships (mums) which i don't think helps her... she told me she is worried because nobody loves mummy and it's not fair that daddy has me and mummy has nobody.

It sounds like you are trying to be a good stepmother to this little girl, so I don't think you deserve any flaming.

Not everyone needs to go on every holiday all the time, but I think this little girl has expressed a real need for her father, and I wonder whether leaving her out of a holiday will ultimately help the situation.

Something that I find really helps my oldest child's behavior is when I can put her baby sister to bed early, or leave her with a grandparent, and big sister and I can have "special time." Sometimes we can do something like go swimming, but if it's just a half hour before bedtime at home we can bake a simple cake or fold the laundry. (She is almost 6.) Could you plan out the holiday so that the little girl knew she was going to have, say, three "special times" with her father in the course of the week? It would probably mean a lot to her, and might improve her behavior the rest of the time. Have her father bring it up with her, and let her plan some aspects of the times.

Also, as others have said, your DH needs to step up more -- don't punish his child because he doesn't pull his weight on holiday.

YABU either take all the kids or none of them.

Yes - definitely weather DD2 should get the same time with her dad. I pointed this out to him on the last holiday and he made a real effort after that to ensure he was giving both girls time alone.

Well, it sounds to me like you're a very thoughtful step mum.

Remember the principle that if a behaviour is continuing, then, as a rule, it means she is getting something out of it. If it no longer works, the behaviour will stop. The details around this can be tricky, and changing the patterns can be a long process. But it can be done.

I'm not saying it's not hard, I have a step daughter and my hubby is step dad to my kids. I dont have problems like u with sdd because she lives with us and has since she was a baby but my hubby had to put up with some awful shit from mine. It was clear my oldest 2 thought he was the reason me and their father weren't together and they would kick off proper with him. He had to stand up to them himself, pick his battles and not change. Show he was in for the long haul and wasn't going anywhere. New baby brought even more tension but you just have to stand your ground

They still sometimes scream in true slater fashion YOUR NOT MY DAD when he tells them to do something they don't like etc but I'm afraid it's part of being a step parent.

interesting thought "if a behaviour is continuing, then, as a rule, it means she is getting something out of it. If it no longer works, the behaviour will stop"... I think we have been letting her get away with it for two reasons:

1. shes SO AWFUL when we try and discipline. (in a way that my DS for an example would just take... she will kick off, be in a huff all day and that will be that.)

and

1. I don't want her to feel pushed out by me so if she butts in and i see a little hurt face there i often just say "it's ok", even if my DP says "hang on, i'm talking to howto"

I don't think this has helped!

I agree with Pounding. I think it's essential that your DP is the sole carer for her when you are together. Let him be her centre of attention, for the good stuff and the not so good ones.
And you keep the 'fun stuff' with her for yourself.

IMO, he will also need to dig deeper re parenting to find a way to parent her that works better for her and for him. Shouting at bedtime and her resisting for hours on end isn't right. It is even less right that you are the one to intervene as the peace keeper!

As for the rest (the stopping people from talking etc..), I would treat that as it is, ie a rude behaviour and to NOT relate that to the fact she is struggling with you been there. She is acting rudely, treat it as such.

And then at the same time, see that she gets enough time with her dad. That her sibling gets enough time with him on a 1-1 basis. Reassure her etc...

I have tried to have this conversation with her - about how the love you have for your children is a different kind of love, that her and her sis are part of their dad and the love is different. But then that backfires as she gets upset and says "well that must mean you love your DS more than us".

So you're not even allowed to love your own bio child more than her??

Does she think her df loves your ds more than her?

She sounds very insecure.

I agree though that your dp should step up and parent her more and yes also agree you should consider each holidaying with your own child/ren and then having an adults only holiday.

How about getting in with some "reinforcing the positive" more often that trying to discipline.

So, even when it seems like rewarding really normal behaviour, "Thank you, DSD, for letting DP and I finish that conversation. That's brilliant" (cue loads of affection), "now what do you think, DSD?"

yes, she has mentioned in the past that she thinks her dad loves my DS more than her but that hasn't come up for a while. When she is there my DP doesn't give my DS much attention (which makes me a bit sad and angry as i split myself 3 ways and i don't always feel he does - although i have shared this with him and i can see he is trying... but he does always focus on eldest daughter first, then second daughter, then my DS whereas i feel I try much more to be fair 3 ways