Comment OH made to me

[CookieTramp]

I am about to go away for three nights/four days, the longest I have been away since the children (6 and 22 months) came along. It is for a residential meditation weekend to try and learn some mindfulness, control negative thoughts and combat depression.

My mum is having the children this afternoon and tomorrow, and my husband over the weekend. I have managed to pre-cook some food for her to heat and serve to the children, so that she doesn't have to do too much. I haven't managed to think about the weekend's food as well, so I told my husband last night that while there's food for tonight and tomorrow, he will need to sort something for the weekend for himself and the kids. (let it be said, I actually feel bad about this...) He replied, 'Yes, because you've got so much on your mind'.

Background is that he has been working crazy hours, and also that he was away working in NY for a year from when our youngest was 6 months. He has only been back 7 weeks. It was complicated and I was under constant pressure to move out there, as the money is good and he loves the job there. I did agree to move out there initially and then backed out because it was too scary while the kids are so young to move away from friends and family, and he works such long hours.

I struggle with being a SAHM. I do everything - house, garden, admin, and all organising, which I find hard to keep everything in my head.

So his comment feels like contempt and disrespect for my role, and for how I struggle to do it all and do it all cheerfully for the kids. I don't understand why he needed to say anything like that. I feel belittled and I have been up half the night staring at the wall, trying to work out whether I am getting it out of perspective.

I am just asking for feedback really, on how it strikes you. I'd rather not turn this into a discussion about his working in NY for a year (with a few visits), as that was so complicated and such a year of difficulty and constant uncertainty.

What a shitty attitude towards MH, c4kedout. OP says twice in her first post that she's 'struggling', and specifically mentions that she's going on this course to 'control negative thoughts and combat depression'.

But apparently none of that counts, unless she can prove that she's been officially diagnosed as 'clinical', i.e. she'd better be on her knees, weeping, and/or medicated before she gets any sympathy or support from charmers like you.

don't most parents 'struggle' a bit? doesn't make them depressed. not saying OP is not depressed just amazed how everybody makes assumptions on the severety of her depression.

It's very easy to know if a person is struggling or depressed. There are clear definitions which are easy to find on line. The NHS has guidelines

well said ladylikecough.

With this couple's history as parents even if the OP loved everything about being a SAHP, had great MH, all going fine and dandy and just fancied a weekend away to shop and sip cocktails, she would still not be being unreasonable.

c4kaedout if someone states that they're depressed, and that they feel the need for some form of external help, whether it's to learn coping skills or even just to get a brief respite, then IMO that should be sufficient. You don't need to start asking them to prove the exact level of their depression (are you clinical? are you struggling more or less than other people? are you actually depressed or just exaggerating?) and nitpick their decision ('it's hardly the same as treatment' -- ok, so: if it ain't hospital, then you clearly don't have a real problem).

I'm sure some people are dramatic, and enjoy drawing attention and sympathy, but for many other people it's difficult to even admit that they're struggling, and it's devastating to say that and then have your issues dismissed and your feelings minimized. Isn't it better to err on the side of empathy, when someone says they're feeling overwhelmed? I don't think the nation's actually on its knees due to a mass exodus to mindfulness courses.

Not read the whole thread yet but I am judging him quite negatively for moving to NY and leaving his wife and young child. Presumably there are jobs in the UK he could have done?

Sounds to me like he is having a bit of a tantrum because the OP doesn't want to give up her whole life and live in another country with a man who will continue to work long hours. She will still be responsible for everything at home but will have no support network.

His dreams are not more important than hers. He does not have a right to just expect her to prioritise his desire to live in NY.

If his work is too stressful, it's time to look for a new job. I would take that comment as him not understanding at all the pressures in your life and undervaluing your contribution to the family, which has enabled him to work abroad. I doubt he would have managed it if he had to look after his kids 50% of the time.

legal she's not handing a job over to a colleague - she's keaving the kids with their dad. Feeding 2 kids shouldnt be too hard for him

If feeding kids was so easy, a good proportion of mumsnet threads wouldn't exist. I can totally understand a non experienced parent being daunted by 4 days of responsibility for it, especially if they are not a natural cook. I would have just done the shopping and had one less thing to wonder about while away.

He only has two days with the kids. The OP's mother was caring for them the first two days.

And if feeding kids is that hard, then it's also hard for the op to pre-cook for them.

Honestly, I think you're both heading for burn out. I am genuinely struggling to work out which of you is more stressed out. Please, please, will you try talking to each other? You're going on this weekend because you've had the wit to realise you need help. Men tend to feel less able than women to ask for help (and this applies a thousand times over for high flying types). If the pair of you play "my life is worse", having been apart for a year, it may risk your marriage. But if you can get talking properly, you can probably support each other to move on.

Well, gosh, there have been so many replies! Some have really touched me - the support and understanding here is incredible. Some have been from people visiting from the 1950s, but hopefully their stay will be short :-/ (Moopsboops springs to mind, among a couple of others).

I feel I should report back. I didn't go on my retreat (don't groan!). DH had hurt his back a couple of days before, but had said to me it was fine for me to still go, etc. The night of his unfortunate comment to me, I watched him go down the path of the back garden and saw how he was walking - slowly and bent double. I decided despite his cockery by making that comment, I couldn't leave him having to lift a heavy toddler in and out of cot/highchair/buggy, and I cancelled the course (but I am rescheduled to go at the end of October so it is not all bad!). When I told him of my decision, he was sooooo relieved and told me how awful his back had been and that he was fearful it was a slipped disc but hadn't told me how bad and had tried to act normal (remember, I was barely seeing him as he left early and was back 10-11pm each night), because he didn't want me to miss my self-care weekend. Well, I took him to the physio the next day and he had treatments and acupuncture and it is STILL pretty bad. He even didn't go to work on Friday, which is pretty incredible for him. And there was love in that and that helped me put the comment to one side. The people who said not to load that one comment with too much import were perfectly right.

Sooooo, in that climate, I think the comment should be ignored. For those enquiring, at the time I said 'that is really disrespectful of my role' and he said 'I'm sorry'. I said 'You should be' and went upstairs to bed, where I lay awake thinking about what it all meant.

I do suffer from depression and low self-esteem (goes back to years of bullying at school), and some of the comments of support on here brought me to tears. I don't place enough importance on my own role, and in some ways I think he takes his cue from that. We are at Relate (again), and there are lingering issues of resentment on his part at my changing my mind about going to NY. But I was in a really really dark place then (I was on medication and having CBT on the NHS), and I think people saying I was selfish not to go are just absurd. I have to survive too. I have to keep my head above water, for the kids as well as for myself, and if the move to NY was too much for me, then I did the right thing. I am amazed at people who said I wrecked my marriage, etc. It was a constantly changing situation, and I decided a certain point that it was the wrong thing for me and I was clear from then on that it wasn't going to happen.

As it happens, the move is back on the table, and now that my youngest is a little older and I am a little stronger, it is now a possibility that doesn't make me feel sick with fear.

For those enquiring about the course - it is Vipassana, which is a non-religious course teaching mindfulness and the art of living. Unfortunately, you have to do a mothership of a 10-day course first (which I did while young free and single and living in Japan - nearly killed me! 4am starts, no talking, no reading, no music, no phones), after which you are entitled to do the 3-day 'old' students course. I haven't meditated since, but I really feel the answer to my depression and self-esteem/negativity issues lies within it. So I want to have another go, and I will. I am sure there are other, less hardcore courses available (the hardcore bit appeals to me, but then I am the woman who went from doing no exercise to a five-day residential Marine bootcamp! - and back to no exercise again :-/), but Vipassana is one of the best.

Thank you so much to everyone who took the time to reply here. It definitely taps into the great divide between the parents who work full-time and the parents who don't, and how hard it is to understand each other's role. It has given me much to think about, and so many people got right to the heart of the problem with very little go on. There are truly some amazing women on here.

Ladylikecough - I love you! I am exactly one of those people who finds it hard to admit to struggling, and doesn't accept help, and I love your compassion.

It definitely taps into the great divide between the parents who work full-time and the parents who don't, and how hard it is to understand each other's role.

For the record, I work full time. I have a demanding career and exH was a SAHD with mental health issues.
I'm on your "side" and have always been quite happy to pick up on what DS needed.
I have been in a position where it was better to move countries and I only did it because he agreed. It was made clear that I wouldn't have moved if he didn't want to, although we discussed the pros and cons, of course.

Glad you have reconnected and sorted out this weekend. Sorry he was poorly and I hope he gets better. Why can't they simply say what is really bothering them, though?
Keep talking and make sure you protect yourself, because you are protecting your LOs as well.

I can understand your OH's POV. He's working really, really long hours, from what you say - yes, being a SAHM can be difficult but he's working till 11pm! You do some days too, I'm sure, but at least you get to see your kids at the same time.

I'm not saying you have it easy, not at all, but perhaps your other half doesn't have it easy either.

I think that's part of the grumbling is probably this: you could find the time to pre-prepare food for grandma, who (I'd say almost definitely, given the hours he works) has a lot more free time and energy than he does, but you couldn't find the time to do the same for him?

I know you feel bad about not having the time for this, but perhaps it would be helpful to emphasise that to him. Tell him if the reason you left him to it is because you knew he could manage, while your Mum might not have helped out in future as much if she hadn't had the help, and that you wish you could have fitted in more.

Sounds like the comment came from a place of physical pain and worry about how he was going to cope. You have handled things admirably. I really hope you both find a way to reconnect. Don't sell yourself short

CookieTramp

The course sounds pretty full-on!

I hope it helps a lot. I've struggled with depression and self-esteem issues too, but did not have to care for the children all day. It sounds like the kind of thing that will give you a really good foundation and will be good for you and your family.

Aaargh! My internet connection is to blame for the late reply after you'd already replied. Sorry!

Glad you seem to have everything in hand. It sounds like even preparing for your retreat helped - do you ever find that ? - because this post sounds much more positive than the last one :) Hope you get to go on the actual retreat at some point.

Glad you've talked it over and are in counselling. Sorry you missed your weekend - hope when he's better you can take time for yourself at weekends before the weekend away in Oct.

Before going to NY consider seeking legal advice on whether you could bring the DC back in the event of a break up and consider the impact on your own situation (eg work options, money, housing).

I don't think you need to justify not going to NY the first time because of how you were at the time. If you just didn't want to, that would be fine. It is unreasonable to expect a partner to be a "trailling spouse" if this isn't right for everyone. It concerns me that despite having gone himself so having had the career opportunity- and leaving you with two DC and struggling - HE is resentful! And wanting you to accompany him on another trip. Also concerns me that you talk about it as a challenge you SHOULD meet, rather than whether or not it'd be good for you or you want to.

Sounds like your H has health issues he shouldn't ignore. If he has a desk job, sitting for long hours is v v bad for your back indeed. Important not to ignore warnings, eg make lifestyle changes to try to avoid permanent pain and damage - know a few working people in their 30s and 40s struggling with this.

My overriding feeling on this is that ultimately he's going to get what he wants irrespective of whether you want the same things. Why cant he look for work here?

"It definitely taps into the great divide between the parents who work full-time and the parents who don't, and how hard it is to understand each other's role. "

No. It's the divide between those who automatically value working in the cash economy more and those who don't. I work nearly full time (though not today because my plumber's coming to service the boiler) and I don't think my work outside the home is more valuable than that in it.

Glad you're feeling more positive and able to re-book your course and that you've got back some positive vibe about your DH's feelings for you. It was nice of him not to complain about his back so that you could go off and do your course, but real communication about what's bugging him would be even better. Hope the relationship counselling helps with that.

I too work FT and would only even consider being a SAHP if as well as being OK with what that meant for me (eg economically and financially) I was 100% sure my partner had a good attitude about it. Have seen far too many seemingly nice, "family" men in RL with crummy, entitled attitudes. DH says he would never consider being a SAHP at all!

If he worked all the hours, spent little time with the DC or me and didn't explicitly value my contribution or the fact that this meant that he could be a parent, in a relationship AND devote massive time and energy to his career, it wouldn't work. to me that's not what mutual support, equality and teamwork is about.

Go away for your break do not give what he and pp have said a second thought just because you are a sahp does not give anybody the right to belittle your feelings because they earn money to many mothers are subject to putdowns of this sort because they look after the children and dont earn money perhaps your course will put you in a better frame of mind to deal with your arrogant and quit frankly prattish husband it is a few fucking dinners for crying out loud.

This thread is long and i have just seen your update sorry he hurt his back but still dont let him or anybody else grind you down.