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Original poster

to think Corbyn is dead in the water

435 replies

oldshilling · 15/09/2015 18:39

Yes he's a nice chap with a nice beard, but silliness (principled though it might be) like refusing to sing the national anthem is not going to endear him to more than a small minority of the population.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34263447

And the signs are that he intends to be the gift that keeps on giving, in terms of pointless gestures that don't really achieve anything but make him a mega-target for the right-wing press.

Either he gets turfed out before the next GE, or he surpasses Michael Foot as the biggest loser in Labour's history.

OP posts:
Snoozebox · 15/09/2015 22:27

Hear hear, bialy. The fact is that myopic self-interest is a threat to our future. We need to work together now as communities to progress and socialism is the best way to achieve that.

Scremersford · 15/09/2015 22:27

Maud if you weren't so busy insulting people and failing miserably at tying to sound supercilious (why bother? are you interested in worker's rights or not - if so, then why insult workers like me?), you might wish to avail yourself of some reading up on the social charter provisions of recent eu legislation and the argument that the typical UK unions, rooted in rhetoric developed for the very unique UK conditions around the traditional industries that grew up from the industrial revolution, are not really fit for purpose in modern day society.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/09/2015 22:29

I take the point about him sticking by his principles over the anthem, but it's not really just about him, is it? After all he wasn't there in a purely personal capacity but as the representative of a major political party

I don't know if figures are available by party for those who back republicanism, but last time I looked the overall support was around 30% ... couldn't he have made an effort on behalf of the other (70%?)

suzannefollowmyvan · 15/09/2015 22:30

most people have a deep affection for the monarchy
what??
do me a favour
many have deep contempt for the monarch
fuck knows I do
bunch of fucking tossers

Hamiltoes · 15/09/2015 22:30

hello

"Ta1Kin

Oh dear you just don't get it do you!

It's the general electorate you need to persuade and that is never ever going to happen is it!"

You do realise a landslide general election was won north of the border by a party whos specific mandade is to scrap trident, don't you? Its not exactly political suicide as you are making it out to be Hmm you might not agree with it, but there is an appetite for it. You come across as extremely patronising.

Snoozebox · 15/09/2015 22:31

I deeply admire how he is sticking too conv Cations and now bowing to what the majority in his party vote at this moment in time.

He's a revolutionist for the greater good, and I can't wait to see what "controversy" he stirs up next.

Micksy · 15/09/2015 22:31

A quick Google tells me that Nicaragua has differing minimum wages per sector, and looking at xe.com, that looks to be the minimum national wage in the manufacturing sector. Without any comparison of living costs, it's not really that shocking.

Snoozebox · 15/09/2015 22:32

Convictions Hmm

herethereandeverywhere · 15/09/2015 22:32

I'm a lefty and also a republican at heart (though revolution isn't top of my list) but Corbyn's lack of singing today has really troubled me. It just seemed the wrong occasion to be making a point.

He can sing it and not believe it with the justification that he was respecting the ceremony and those it was honouring. I really don't go in for an awful lot of traditional bullshit but Corbyn didn't represent me today...

Hellocampers · 15/09/2015 22:33

Hamiltoes

I have kids that age and it's tough for them. Labour now will not help them as it could have if it had learned from the past.

However as a 52 year old labour voter who saw my party in the wilderness for years,riven by infighting and militant tendency infiltration,so the country burned while labour fiddled with itself excuse me for being fucking livid with those on here of my age who do remember and still prefer the Labour Party to
congratulate themselves on again making themselves utterly unelectable. ..., again!

DogStrummer · 15/09/2015 22:34

"When did socialism become such a dirty word?"

Millions being killed & repressed under communism didn't exactly help.

And then there are still plenty people who remember the joys of Socialism in the UK in the 70's. How many people here have parents who kept a big pack of candles under the sink well into the 80's?

Socialism doesn't work, and hasn't worked in ANY country in which it's been tried.

MaudGonneMad · 15/09/2015 22:34

Who was it that called posters 'dinosaurs'? And who was it that threw their credentials around? Supercilious, eh? Wink

Your original point was unhistorical and ill-informed. I'm merely pointing that out. Others have made the same point. You're now attempting to deflect onto the present-day UK unions being unfit for purpose. That's an interesting subject and I don't necessarily disagree. But it is a different point to the one you originally made.

Snoozebox · 15/09/2015 22:35

This argument is going round in circles.

Well the hell should he pander to the media and sing it?

It's more insulting to take an active part in a tradition you don't believe in. It's almost a mockery then.

MaudGonneMad · 15/09/2015 22:36

PS Being in favour of workers' rights doesn't mean that all workers are always right. Seems obvious but obviously worth re-stating. Just like every choice a woman makes is not necessarily a feminist choice.

BetaTest · 15/09/2015 22:36

I think the Achilles heel of Corbyn will be the unions.

The meeting he addressed today played 'Hey Big Spender' before he spoke. The union barons will start agitating with strikes and public protests and demanding ever more unaffordable policies and pay rises and that will eventually turn the public off and Corbyn will be unable or unwilling to oppose them

wasonthelist · 15/09/2015 22:39

They mean you're rota-d to work from 2-9 but you get to work at 2 and your employer makes you sit in the staff room till 5, then sends you home for no pay at all.
Those ones - exclusive rights type - were outlawed by the Tories, after being allowed in by NuLabour

Er... isn't that (outlawing exclusivity) just a theoretical right for an employee to stomp off to a. n. other casual job at that point. In practise, nothing's changed - someone could easily face the exact scenario outlined both before and after those changes - you're pretty unlikely to find gainful employment elsewhere at such short notice - zero hours still means you can be a theoretical employee, but not do any paid work in a given week, whilst being required to do 48 hours the next.

AlpacaLypse · 15/09/2015 22:39

Ta1kinPeace No I don't pay a wage, I pay for a contracted commission. I'm not entirely stupid... everyone who takes on work for my agency has to set up and organise their own NI and self employed income tax account. I just make sure that the amount they earn will definitely be more than the Living Wage, and I also ensure they get paid mileage/travel time allowance at a realistic rate.

What I find extremely depressing is that we work in pet care, and from my conversations with people who work in the de-facto very similar field of adult social care, we have far less trouble arranging contracts at a sensible rate for people's pets than people who are trying to arrange for the same type of service for human beings.

GingerCuddleMonsterThe2nd · 15/09/2015 22:41

Dog my grandmother still keeps candles under the sink to this day, I'm not sure what she thinks is going to happen, or maybe she downy trust me to always pay the "light bill" as she puts it. I've never not paid it for her for years Grin

Hamiltoes · 15/09/2015 22:42

hello but what is it that you think makes them utterly unelectable? They lost in Scotland tremendously, I'm actually starting to see a chink in the SNPs armour up here and people are starting to glance in Labours direction again. Why is that such a bad thing? Don't you think its possible that Labours problem was that it was trying too hard to turn tories, when it should have been trying to turn the greens, libs, SNP, PC, and any left leaning party members aswell as the countless non-voters, the youth etc? It seems to me thats what he's doing.

I remember when the odds for him being leader were 100/1. I seriously wouldn't rule out a Lab gov in 5 years. The tories have went further than most would have imagined with the TC cuts and I think alot of families will be scratching their heads come April. If the left vote wasn't split so much, then perhaps they'd be in with a chance.

ElizabethG81 · 15/09/2015 22:43

Millions being killed & repressed under communism didn't exactly help.

Socialism is not communism. FFS.

hiddenhome2 · 15/09/2015 22:44

He's a pacifist, so will presumably be quite happy to hand the country over to terrorists. He'll probably invite them over for tea Hmm

He could send drones over to Syria to drop Vote Jeremy tee shirts onto them Confused

Scremersford · 15/09/2015 22:44

Maud in the unlikely event that someone wishes to consult you on (a) employment law (b) the history of employment law (c) discursive technique and (d) any other related subject, I assume they will let you know. In the meantime, I'd appreciate if you could grasp that your continual efforts to advise me on my professional subject are both unwelcome and inaccurate.

My position is that unionism in this country is set up to favour one half of the population ie the male half, and does absolutely nothing for women like me in the professions. In fact, it has a negative effect for us, because it distorts the male dominated market in certain fields by causing over-valuing, corresponding overpayment and easy employment law conditions for certain favoured workers who again, are predominately male.

ElizabethG81 · 15/09/2015 22:47

He's a pacifist, so will presumably be quite happy to hand the country over to terrorists.

What? I think you need to look up the definition of pacifist.

Awholelottanosy · 15/09/2015 22:48

Personally I have huge admiration for someone who is able to stand by his long held convictions, especially knowing how the right wing media will be utterly hysterical about this. Just makes me love him even more! It's a fucking breath of fresh air IMO!

Micksy · 15/09/2015 22:49

To all the people discussing what zero hours contracts are really like, do you know lots of people who work factories? Or in retail or hospitality industries? I know at least a dozen people who are "held back" every week for between 0-10 hours, very rarely 0.
It shouldn't happen, but it does. And these are people that then go on to get maybe 25 hours minimum wage work in a week. So sometimes they are asked to be at work for 35 hours for an absolute pittance, less even than minimum wage if they're young.
Then that's before we start taking about the home carers, cycling on their own, late at night, in god forsaken parts of town, with no support if they get into trouble, for no pay at all, because they are traveling between jobs in their own free time for shits and giggles.
And I've never met any teachers assistants, working as unqualified teachers, but not on the right pay scale, instead working minimum wage. That never happens either.
None of this could ever happen, because there's laws against it, and every employer follows those laws. And if they don't, their mostly uneducated staff on sub minimum wage will know exactly how to take them to court and make sure they fulfill their statutory obligations.

Yes, things are far too unbalanced in favour of the worker right now. What we really need is to crack down on the unions, because those bloody workers have just got it all far too easy.