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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think Corbyn is dead in the water

435 replies

oldshilling · 15/09/2015 18:39

Yes he's a nice chap with a nice beard, but silliness (principled though it might be) like refusing to sing the national anthem is not going to endear him to more than a small minority of the population.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34263447

And the signs are that he intends to be the gift that keeps on giving, in terms of pointless gestures that don't really achieve anything but make him a mega-target for the right-wing press.

Either he gets turfed out before the next GE, or he surpasses Michael Foot as the biggest loser in Labour's history.

OP posts:
BuggersMuddle · 15/09/2015 22:52

We keep candles in an accessible place. It's not about the light bill, more random acts affecting the supply. For the same reason we keep a wired phone. I didn't think this was odd?

Going back to the main post, as someone who is very firmly in the centre, the ding dong politics of left and right that I thoroughly enjoyed on Spitting Image when I was too young to vote, scare the shit out of the grown adult in me. Of course I have self interest (I am a high earner, I work in banking), but those are not my major worries about Corbyn. I worry about a left making itself so unelectable that the right has limited barriers..

Dawndonnaagain · 15/09/2015 22:52

Queen asks for grants
Bunch of scroungers. I'm with Jeremy.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/09/2015 22:54

I worry about a left making itself so unelectable that the right has limited barriers

Precisely Smile

Hellocampers · 15/09/2015 22:56

Ok yes you win Hamiltoes

Of course Jeremy will win the next election. Jog on.

DogStrummer · 15/09/2015 22:58

"I worry about a left making itself so unelectable that the right has limited barriers.."

^^ This. I never thought I'd say this, but I'm genuinely rooting for a resurgence of the Lib Dems now.

MaudGonneMad · 15/09/2015 22:58

I'm a professional historian. I know a fair bit about the history of workers' rights in the UK. If you want to play top trumps, that is.

My position is that the union movement (in the UK and internationally) won valuable rights for all workers and that we owe them a sizeable historic debt for many of the employment rights we enjoy today. Your position is that we owe our employment rights to the then EEC. And somehow not the unions that worked towards employment legislation in the original Six and subsequent members? Not really sure that is a sustainable distinction, but heigh ho.

I shall bow to your far superior knowledge which you are very anxious to ensure everyone knows about.

Cheerio.

AlpacaLypse · 15/09/2015 23:03

Hear hear MaudGonneMad!

Investmentspaidout · 15/09/2015 23:06

The forthcoming infighting within the Labour Party will be appalling. Not right now but give it a few months.

Spent my youth hanging about with Marxists like Corbyn and they always fall out with each other.

Shakespearmint · 15/09/2015 23:12

Anyone who Blair decides to disparage gets my attention big time .

Scremersford · 15/09/2015 23:16

Maud My position is that the union movement (in the UK and internationally) won valuable rights for all workers and that we owe them a sizeable historic debt for many of the employment rights we enjoy today. Your position is that we owe our employment rights to the then EEC. And somehow not the unions that worked towards employment legislation in the original Six and subsequent members? Not really sure that is a sustainable distinction, but heigh ho.

Again, don't tell me what my position is. If you are a professional in an academic field, as you are claiming to be, you will be aware of how to debate properly. You don't need to tell people what they think in order to clarify your own position. You simply need to make your own points and then prove them.

Unions were one contributor towards current employment rights. Governments are full of talented negotiators, qualified in the relevant fields. Unions are a very small part of what goes on in negotiation and in research. And right now, it is entirely possible that they are having a negative effect on the rights of many women, in that they protect overpaid niches of predominately males and seem to prevent challenging of the status quo. Particularly when it comes to equal pay for like work. They also work so as to prevent women accessing whole swathes of the working world, because right now in this country, unions are more interested in protecting the current rights of the their members, and certain classes of those members, than promoting open access to employment. That means that I, as a woman, have far more limited choices of employment open to me if I want to earn a good salary than a man with possibly less ability and qualifications. I see overplaying the role of unions as complicit in that.
In reality, its much easier for a clever female student to go into a profession which doesn't have a union, as its less rigid and more welcoming structure offers a more level playing field.

I'm not sure if you confused the health and safety legislation as giving individuals rights or not, but even you must be aware that virtually every country in the Western world and certainly in Europe have long had equivalent legislation.

Its all too easy to talk about things as they have always been, labouring under the assumption that they should always be that way, but it takes true vision to change things for the better.

FriendofBill · 15/09/2015 23:20

That's the dirt you have on Corbyn?
Corbyn commissioned shirts to be made where workers were paid the minimum wage to make them.

Hand on heart, I believe if Corbyn thought anyone was being taken advantage of in making those shirts he would have put a stop to it.

And that's why my vote is with him.

bialystockandbloom · 15/09/2015 23:29

Well said maude

Equating socialism with
Communism is like, um, equating conservatism with fascism isn't it. Modern socialism just means a fairer society, so eg higher tax rates for highest incomes. Fgs France has a "socialist" government, it's not quite the ussr yet.

Whoever said Labour could now use this opportunity to unite all the left-leaning parties - spot on. The lib-dems, and greens, as well as the snp, have been far more vocal about traditionally 'leftist' principles in recent years than Labour.

Flashbangandgone · 15/09/2015 23:30

I don't know anyone who sings it, or even knows it.

Wtf?!? What kind of bubble do you live in if you know no one who even knows the national anthem? I find that incomprehensible!

AlpacaLypse · 15/09/2015 23:37

When I was about seven, I found this book lying around in my classroom. It was called Animal Farm and had some odd but recognisable farm animals on the cover. So I picked it up and started reading it.

I hadn't really taken on board that my infant class had been moved into the Lower Fifth's room while painting and decorating was going on, and that I was now reading a metaphorical novel. And no one noticed that a copy was missing, so I took it home and kept reading.

I didn't really understand for many years, and there are some bits that I still don't.

However I do think there are a couple of posters on here that remind me of Boxer the Horse.

Hellocampers · 15/09/2015 23:54

investments yes agree.

Flash the bubble they live in is the same one that believes Jeremy will win a general election.

I have a suspicion it's the same bubble they live in as middle class professional chattering classes who love to parade their socialism to all and sundry and don't give an absolute fuck that their actions have condemned the country to another decade of Tory rule.

GiddyOnZackHunt · 15/09/2015 23:57

I don't sing the National Anthem. I don't pray at church funerals/weddings either. During prayers I bow my head but that's all. I respect the Queen but not the monarchy.
I respect Corbyn for being open and sticking to his stated position far more than David Cameron's position on religion. Cameron made some fudge that tried to pretend he was a God fearing chap who didn't get to go to church or wasn't sure if he believed. Have a bit of conviction!

Hellocampers · 16/09/2015 00:32

Yes yes Giddy and who won the general election?

Who is in power and setting the agenda?

Whose policies are making laws and altering lives?

Seriously you don't get it?

Hamiltoes · 16/09/2015 00:48

I'm struggling to see what you "get" hello

Basically anyone as long as they are in power, even if they're tory dressed in a labour tie Hmm

Labour can't do right/center anymore, they can't win because Tory do it better. And even if they didn't, the Lib Dems would do it better. Left can't win because the one uniting party abandoned the left, leaving members to all split off and do their own thing in green ukip snp pc tusc etc. What would be the one thing that could have the potential for the left to win.....?

Unless we get rid of FPTP, the only thing I can see is for them to win back those voters. Lib Dem took most of the flack when actually, they probably saved the last gov from implementing the most controversial policies, and let the tories take the credit as the new "working mans party". Its only now we're seeing the effects of tory-heavy, and one can only hope the general public sees they're not the party of the last gov.

I remain optimistic, for the first time. IMO any of the other three would have been the final nail in the coffin.

Toadinthehole · 16/09/2015 00:59

I'm very afraid for Corbyn. While I'm not a fan of his politics, I feel that at last we have a politician who will bring breadth to political debate, and won't dress it up by beating the nationalist drum. I'm afraid for him because the media will keep picking at him about things that really don't matter, examples being:

  • Whether he wears a tie at PMQs
  • Whether he sings the national anthem
  • What he said in 1983
  • What he said to his mate in the pub last week
  • How he observes protocol relating to the queen.

And so on. And so on. Trivia to make him look stupid rather than serious discussion of his policies or, if his policies are discussed, ridiculing them. I hope he will have enough force of character to stick things out. While I doubt he will ever be elected PM, if the Tories move left to take the centre ground, that's a very good thing.

Inkanta · 16/09/2015 06:22

Well most of the papers are making this their headline - that Corbyn 'refused' to sing the national anthem.

Did he refuse or did he choose to stand silently I don't know but looks like the media are really gunning for him. Anyway he's up for PMQT this week apparently - good luck to him. I hope he does it his way.

merrymouse · 16/09/2015 06:40

Whether or not Corbyn is electable isn't really the point. He represents a rebalance that was inevitable for the Labour Party.

Like it or not people don't always want to support somebody on the basis that they are electable, they also want to vote for somebody who represents their views. The Labour Party failed to represent the view that benefits should not be cut and the NHS should be protected.

merrymouse · 16/09/2015 06:46

I think the moral of the story is that you can only keep a party together on the basis of 'electability' for so long. If after a decade or so people don't think you are representing their concerns they will look elsewhere. See also UKIP and the SNP.

Flashbangandgone · 16/09/2015 07:07

In fairness to Corbyn, his republican views meant he was damned whatever he die regarding the national anthem. Although I don't agree with his politics, he probably made the right call in the circumstances. One of his key weapons is his integrity... If he had sung he would have seriously undermined that whilst not convincing monarchists for a moment.

Also, is it just me or is there a very high concentration of Corbynites on MN?

SheGotAllDaMoves · 16/09/2015 07:11

There are a lot of HC supporters here.

Some posters' posting history will tell you they are not long term membersWink.

TheNewStatesman · 16/09/2015 07:45

To be fair, Jeremy Hunt apparently believes in homeopathy too.

Not that I'm defending Jeremy Bonkers Corbyn, mind you.