to think Corbyn is dead in the water

[oldshilling]

Yes he's a nice chap with a nice beard, but silliness (principled though it might be) like refusing to sing the national anthem is not going to endear him to more than a small minority of the population.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34263447

And the signs are that he intends to be the gift that keeps on giving, in terms of pointless gestures that don't really achieve anything but make him a mega-target for the right-wing press.

Either he gets turfed out before the next GE, or he surpasses Michael Foot as the biggest loser in Labour's history.

Eventually the press will get bored and JC will be able to get on with reshaping the labour party, which may or not be to my taste but unlike a lot of you I'm prepared to wait and see.

But elections don't happen in a vacuum, and there are a number of really very contentious issues coming, not least the tax credit cuts which will hurt "hard working families"' and the referendum.

I said a while ago on the various threads about the EU referendum that, after Labour got shafted by the Tories over Scotland, I wouldn't blame them if they decided either to campaign for a brexit, or just sit it out and let Dave sort out his own problems. And now, to my dismay as a pro EU person, it looks like there really is a chance of this happening.

If Dave presides over a brexit (which would certainly lead to short term chaos and losses, regardless of whether you think there are longer term benefits) and then a split in the Union, what would that do for his reelection chances?

I imagine if he had sung the national anthem, all the right-wing papers would have called him a hypocrite.

The thing about the gutter press - and I include papers like the Telegraph in that - they don't care whether something is important or trivial, true or false. They just intend to throw enough shit in the hope that some of it sticks.

Look at Ed Miliband. He was a completely innocuous character, but his blandness didn't stop the press having a go at him, whether it was for his inability to eat a bacon sandwich properly (because hey, that's a really crucial test of a politician's suitability to lead the country) or the fact that his father was a Marxist academic. I imagine that Corbyn thinks that, given the press will attack him whatever he does, he might as well do what he wants.

Even Victoria Derbyshire is at it .

I had no idea the Establishment was so entrenched in this country (naive I know). I really hope JC can get past the pettiness and attacks from EVERYBODY to get on and do the work he needs to do. Whether he makes it or not as Labour leader I don't know but nobody is giving him a chance .

m.youtube.com/watch?v=bhyYgnhhKFw

The true cost of the monarchy

He is a Republican, I am sure that JC respects the queen ,BUT he does not
believe in the monarchy.
I am sick of bland politicians with coiffured hair . I want real and honest politicians.

At our church the National Anthem is played once a month at the Boys and Girls Brigade service. Many of the congregation do not sing, some don't even stand up.

No one seems to do any pearl clutching.

'Many of the congregation do not sing, some don't even stand up.'

Well yes. To be honest I never knew all politicians actually sang it. Do they - I still don't know? Rugby players always seem to sing it before a match.

It's very rare now to see an athlete sing it. I don't know about rugby but I imagine rugby players are a population where ex public school boys are overrepresented, so you might reasonably expect them to know the words and not object to them.

I don't persoanlly know anyone under my age (51) who would willingly sing the national anthem.

it is a phase Labour is going rhrough and we dont know how long it will last

'Because if they didn't, the media would give them criticism.'

Anyone would think the media are in charge. I mean who's really in charge around here??

Isn't he a republican and an atheist?

Why on earth would he sing 'God save the Queen'?!

I think it's refreshing seeing a politician who won't dump their own strongly held beliefs to please the media or get a few extra votes.

Because republicans and atheists always have to pretend not to be to look "respectable".

So it's OK for him to not sing the National Anthem because of his principles, but on the other hand he agrees to join the Privy Council and swear the following oath to the Queen:

You do swear by Almighty God to be a true and faithful Servant unto the Queen's Majesty, as one of Her Majesty's Privy Council. You will not know or understand of any manner of thing to be attempted, done, or spoken against Her Majesty's Person, Honour, Crown, or Dignity Royal, but you will lett and withstand the same to the uttermost of your Power, and either cause it to be revealed to Her Majesty Herself, or to such of Her Privy Council as shall advertise Her Majesty of the same. You will, in all things to be moved, treated, and debated in Council, faithfully and truly declare your Mind and Opinion, according to your Heart and Conscience; and will keep secret all Matters committed and revealed unto you, or that shall be treated of secretly in Council. And if any of the said Treaties or Counsels shall touch any of the Counsellors, you will not reveal it unto him, but will keep the same until such time as, by the Consent of Her Majesty, or of the Council, Publication shall be made thereof. You will to your uttermost bear Faith and Allegiance unto the Queen's Majesty; and will assist and defend all Jurisdictions, Pre-eminences, and Authorities, granted to Her Majesty, and annexed to the Crown by Acts of Parliament, or otherwise, against all Foreign Princes, Persons, Prelates, States, or Potentates. And generally in all things you will do as a faithful and true Servant ought to do to Her Majesty. So help you God.[41]

How is this behaviour not hypocritical?

It's far more respectful to stand in silence and honour the fallen in your own way than bawling out the words to a song that pretty much everyone in the country knows you don't mean and don't believe in?

I imagine if he had sung the national anthem, all the right-wing papers would have called him a hypocrite.

I agree with this. He couldn't win.

I just hope the rest of the public are as uninterested as I am in these irrelevant details.

The main thing I get from this non-story is that we badly need a proper division of parliament from the monarchy. Not to mention a division of church and state, but that's another thread.