Donotknowhownottomind · 14/09/2015 21:06
Watched Channel 4 news tonight and it transpires that Jeremy Corbyn was treated to tumbleweed like silence when he walked in to his first meeting with the PLP. He was then brayed at over something he said about Remembrance Sunday.
What I don't understand is why the MPs who are behaving in this manner aren't concerned about how their constituents might view them. Some MPs are planning some kind of rebellion. Others within the Shadow Cabinet are apparently biding their time until they can get back to "business as usual".
How does Jeremy Corbyn stand any chance of attempting to put together effective opposition to the Tories hopefully with an economic policy that isn't rooted in fantasy if he has the support of no one is going to be bullied like this??
Am also worried that the onslaught from all sides as well as the ostracism from his fellow MPs will lead to his having a nervous breakdown of some kind .
Whether the establishment like it or not he does have a mandate.
BigChocFrenzy · 15/09/2015 00:02
He has a serious problem that only about 30 MPs out of the 232 in the PLP supported him. He has gained a few more by giving them shadow cabinet posts, but their loyalty is fragile.
Several MPs have briefed against him to journalists and have said things like "give him enough rope to hang himself" and "he'll last 12 months at the most"
Effective Parliamentary Opposition requires nearly everyone pulling together. He can't concentrate on Cameron because he needs eyes in the back of his head, for his most dangerous opponents.
If the PLP remain in this mindset, the next year will be embarassing and chaotic.
He needs some good personal performances, but especially concrete results in the Scottish elections, London Mayor or byelections, to convince his MPs he is not a disaster.
claig · 15/09/2015 08:49
BigChocFrenzy, you are right, it is going to be extremely difficult for him. However, the other Establishment lot that he beat are totally useless and would never have won an election anyway.
He is going to have to offer the people something spectacular to get them to change their votes and it will have to involve not taxing the middle class.
The problem he has got (apart from the snakes in his own party) is that student soundbites of "it doesn't have to be like this" are not going to good enough. He will have to have a stunning policy platform and one that has been planned. But I don't think there is a plan because the left never imagined that they could win, they only entered at the last minute to add to the debate. Now they are in charge, they need a plan quickly and they can't be tetchy or get needled when it is scrutinised.
It is not looking good for Labour, but good luck to them.
bobbywash · 15/09/2015 09:31
This may have been said before, but, I'm actually delighted to have a conviction politician as the leader of the opposition. Someone who has different views from the Tories and is not "Tory lite" (hateful expression). However a lot of his views and policies are mired in the 70's and so his chances of getting elected as PM are virtually zero.
Even the guardian don't see it as realistic, there is a piece in there today about Corbyn the first 100 days, that indicates he would rely on a Lib-Dem, Green & Labour coalition. I cannot see the country going for that ever.
I think this could lead to another split, as it did when Owen, Williams et al left and formed the social democrats.
mummymeister · 15/09/2015 09:50
there are too many Labour MP's that he has done the dirty on for him to ever succeed. Labour MP's who when in govt, he refused to support and who he briefed against. he went out of his way then to be as obnoxious and difficult as he possibly could be - holding meetings with people like Gerry Adams and other controversial figures when major policy announcements were taking place. He never thought he would get the top job so he never spent any time cultivating friendships and support amongst his colleagues.
There is going to be so much more coming out about him over the coming weeks that I don't personally see how he can survive.
the people in the Party that voted for him might like the idea of a maverick, a man of principal but the reality is he has pie in the sky policies that we are never going to be able to afford.
I asked it on the last thread and no one commented. he is part of the establishment because he has never held a job outside of politics and actually has no clue about how to manage people. he stands in a long line of Islington left wing luvvies who have some utopian idea of Britain in the 50's that they want to go back to.
the reality is that someone has to pay for renationalisation. it wont just happen voluntarily. he would be better off standing down now on a point of principle than going after a long slow political death.
I have no time for this man personally as I have worked in Local Govt in London for many years.
Mistigri · 15/09/2015 10:19
So was it OK for David Davis, as a Tory backbencher, to criticise his own party's trade union bill at the weekend, describing some of the provisions as "Franco-style" restrictions on civil liberties?
JC was a backbencher; he was under no moral obligation to agree with every policy put forward by the Labour government.
Collective responsibility does not apply to backbenchers.
claig · 15/09/2015 11:47
mummymeister, I am beginning to think you are right.
It looks like he is flying by the seat of his pants. No real plan, just a wish list. It may end in disaster. It is sad because it is evident that people have had enough of business as usual with our political class of luvvies, but this may end up even worse than that lot.
BreakWindandFire · 15/09/2015 11:58
there are too many Labour MP's that he has done the dirty on for him to ever succeed. Labour MP's who when in govt, he refused to support and who he briefed against.
I'd disagree with this. Corbyn has ploughed his own furrow and stuck to his beliefs, but I don't recall him every "doing the dirty" or briefing against colleagues. He may have disagreed with their policies and voted his own way but I don't think he's been underhand.
I live in the adjoining constituency and he's well respected. On the main Lib Dem discussion forum at the moment, Baroness Hussein-Ece, a former Islington Councillor has pitched in against criticism to say she's known him for 25 years and he's decent and principled. For a Lib Dem to say that in Islington is remarkable. Labour / Lib Dem relations there are the political version of Rangers/ Celtic!
LurkingHusband · 15/09/2015 12:07
What I don't understand is why the MPs who are behaving in this manner aren't concerned about how their constituents might view them. Some MPs are planning some kind of rebellion.
So the message in a democracy, the way these MPs are quite happy for their constituents to behave, is that if you don't like the result, the democratic nature is irrelevant, and you can just do what you like anyway ?
Great example for kids.
regenerationfez · 15/09/2015 12:24
I'm disappointed with the way the PLP have behaved. They were unlikely to win under the other shower. They might as well pull together and see what happens. There is a massive group of young non voters who are likely to vote for Corbyn if only to see what happens. I would say I was centre left and was disappointed when it became apparent Corbyn would become leader but British politics needs a shakeup and the massive light that there now is between the two main parties. The PLP should stand united or at least behave like grown ups even if they disagree. Corbyn had said he welcomes disparate views.
Inkanta · 15/09/2015 13:00
'the other Establishment lot that he beat are totally useless and would never have won an election anyway.'
Agree Claig, and I like the fact that he's a kind of anti hero that terrifies these labour dead eyed clones, and I can see him having far more success at the ballot than many give him credit for.
The public are easily beguiled by straight talking and he's causing quite a few ripples, particularly among the young, and he won by a relative landslide. He has a curious mixture of quite sensible views and downright outrageous ones - for example he favours a maximum salary! I would not be surprised if the next election isn't quite so cut and dried as it appears.
thinkingmakesitso · 15/09/2015 13:01
I am very disappointed so far. He has shown little leadership, preferring to stay within his comfort zone - 'my first act as leader is to attend the rally...'. That was not a first act as leader; that was just him carrying on being himself. Not everyone in the LP is in London or has the time to attend rallies etc, we want to see leadership at a time when the party is in crisis. Saying he'll rarely do PMQs, ducking out of interviews etc just to keep doing events he feels comfortable with is not on, imo.
I am bitterly disappointed that Cooper will not be up against David Cameron - she would have really got to him and brought out his tetchy, patronising side. I fear it is JC who will come across as tetchy as things stand.
I realise there is more to leadership than interviews - I am disappointed in the whole sorry thing atm.
Mistigri · 15/09/2015 13:10
I think some of you are being taken in by extremely biased press coverage (as a JC agnostic I am absolutely shocked at the standards of journalism on display over the past two days, including from the more "serious" liberal minded papers).
- he hasn't said that he won't do PMQs
- he was elected on a platform of building policy from the bottom rather than imposing it from the top.
Regardless of your opinions of his policy positions (some of which I disagree with) it is hard not to be gobsmacked at people who think that serious policy decisions should be imposed from the top within 48 hours of a major shake-up in the party leadership.
Plus, it would make a nice bloody change if a party actually gathered evidence and consulted before making policy decisions (you know, like us private sector managers do when we are making decisions with long term ramifications) , rather than deciding the policies first then inventing the facts to "support" them - something all three major parties have been guilty of in recent years. Whether JC will be able to do it differently is still in question but maybe we should give him a chance.
Inkanta · 15/09/2015 13:24
'I am absolutely shocked at the standards of journalism on display over the past two days, including from the more "serious" liberal minded papers'
Mistigri - so am I. Such a heart sink. Even the 6pm BBC News - and the young journalist stood outside Westmister giving a ridiculous negative summary in a voice full of dramatic effect.
Oliversmumsarmy · 15/09/2015 14:03
Just got back to this thread and am appalled that some think my dh and dd getting assaulted is a joke.
And to the person who thought it was a joke as well that prices during a period in the 1970s would rise as you shopped I can assure you this was not a joke either. I can remember the shop and the place it was in to this day.
Tiredemma · 15/09/2015 14:15
Mistigri · 15/09/2015 14:22
mollie curious as to why you think JC supporters are all young? I'm a 50-something JC agnostic (I like some things about him, but I'm more of a green these days) - but I know plenty of people who voted for him who are not "young" even if you take the broadest possible definition of the word . In contrast I have a sneaking suspicion that you have no personal memories of the 70s or even 80s ;)
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