Well, there we have it: Jeremy Corbyn has just been announced the next Labour Leader - Part 2

[Donotknowhownottomind]

Just opening the continuation of the last thread...

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

Apparently, after scuttling out of the HoC before he could be questioned about it, John McConnell has now apologised for his supportive remarks about the IRA

So much for firmly-held principles - seems there's more flip flopping going on than a basket of newly caught haddock

[Shutthatdoor]

I think he has now said he will sing in future now though

[Oliversmumsarmy]

Can I ask, I know this is going off at a tangent and it might have been answered somewhere already on this thread but if JC didn't sing the National Anthem because he is so much of a republican, how if by a miracle Labour win the next election then how will he go to the Queen and ask to form a government? Or will he just "stand in respectful silence" and hope she knows what he is there for. Or will Labour be having another leadership election before that time comes?

[Duckdeamon]

Protect the poor through Tory rule

[howabout]

Going to have to out myself as a massive Keith Richards fan and point out (as you would know if you watched Andrew Marr on Sunday) that he is already as old as JC will be in 2020 and showing no signs of hanging up his boots.

Completely agree that economics is an art and not a science.

If only GO and DC would accept that running the country was not a simple matter of the arithmetic of the hh budget on a larger scale. Not an economics qualification between them and I doubt either of them have had to consider the concept of living within their means within their hh either. Perhaps if they had half a clue they would be less easily bamboozled by the "scientific analysis" of the banking community and their econometrics.

[mummymeister]

wasonthelist - predicted by SOME economists not all. that's the problem. there are economists now predicting all sorts of things often diametrically opposed to other views. who do you believe? you cant believe both of them can you. they cant both be right. how do you know who is right and who isn't? Gordon Brown didn't. he predicted the end of boom and bust based on economists predictions and look where that went.

[wasonthelist]

Mummymeister

All the events you mention were predicted by economists - but people ignored them and carried on filling their pockets. Nothing changes.

[mummymeister]

Jeremy Corbyn will be 72 by the next election so we will definitely have to push the retirement age up if he wants to be PM !! You don't appoint someone the leader of your party just because they are arsey and get up the nose of the opposition. you appoint someone that you feel can encourage waiverers or floating voters to vote for you and garner enough support to get elected and form a govt.

Squidzin - economics is not and never has been or will be a science. otherwise the debt crisis, housing crash in the USA and current Chinese issue would have been predicted.

I watched corbyns interview last night "will you bow in front of the queen" "oh do I have to do this then." same question again "oh I haven't been asked to be a member" same question again "Ill have to consult and think about that" why? because his own opinion would be so toxic to voters his advisors have told him to shut his mouth. at least that's a start. he has advisors and is now listening to them.

[JanetBlyton]

There is certainly a huge problem with the old which needs to be dealt with. I have always been pro immigration particularly if it is people who can read and have the skills we need (which sadly is not the case with everyone on the planet who wants to work here) and particularly if they do not bring sexist and racist cultures with them.

• We are very likely to have to push state pension well above 70.
  
  

• We might have to remove it frmo those with private pensions.
  

• We might have to put some responsibility for elderly parents on to children which many many other countries have and indeed many families already do in the UK. Germany is an example of that.

[Justanotherlurker]

All under a broken record screeching "But... Pensions" They love private finance pensions. What about actual pragmatic care?? they have no clue

If you can grasp the basics of this rhetoric then you will understand not only the current demographic shift we are going through and the need for mass immigration and the fact that when brown decided to raid the pensions it was another kindle in the fire of our current housing problem.

Also wasn't it the 'not true labour' who privatised the NHS at a faster rate than the last coalition and that's not including PFI which the almighty JC has criticised?

Still I suppose it's all short term solutions that's needed and it's somehow all those evil Tories fault.....

[Justanotherlurker]

Garrick, that 'open letter' that you posted does not, nor have they supported maximum wage, (also it's been debunked since iirc) for every keynsian you can find the opposite. That's the problem with macro economics as I sure you are aware and not just getting your info from the guardian.


Also, if you didn't vote for a potential prime minister and just to rebut any Tory policy with an answer of 'nuh huh' without having to realistically costs anything you may as well go back to being a green supporter.

The fact is that the now known 'not true labour' as well as many of there supporters where in favour of this specific cut, even Diane Abbott couldn't be arsed to turn up and vote against. brown could have introduced a real minimum wage and attacked the businesses head on, instead he decided to bring in tax credits and even include the upper middle class so they wouldn't moan, but I suspect from reading your posts you've slung the previous labour government under the bus as it will be different this time as long as we support big business by substituting wages.

[squidzin]

Protect the poor through Tory rule, right.

By slashing care for the elderly. Slashing mental health care. Slashing midwife units. Maternity services. Slashing public services for the retired. Privatisation of utilities and essential health. Privatisation of natural monopolies in transport and education. etc etc.

All under a broken record screeching "But... Pensions" They love private finance pensions. What about actual pragmatic care?? they have no clue.

[Donotknowhownottomind]

protect the poor of the nation through Tory rule

Have you asked the people going to food banks if they feel protected Janet? And come April of next year there will be more of them.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

"We didn't vote for a prime minister, we voted for an opposition leader"

Some of us heard you, and as I've said before there might even be some value in preventing the Tories lurching too far to the right. Personally I detest extremism of any type, which is why I prefer to see an effective opposition

But how can they be effective while tearing themselves apart over the election of an utterly unsuitable leader with the mentality of a student Trot? And what real, long term difference can they make if not elected?

[squidzin]

National debt = My arse.

Financial industry debt / Westminster's debt = Not mine to pay back.

.

[squidzin]

How many times have we heared that, Janet. Honestly.

If you ain't fresh, you're stale.

[JanetBlyton]

I am a pro Corybynite because he is the best way to get 10 years of Tory rule. I certanily agree with other leftist Corybynites that they voted for a party leader. That's fine. The more mess in the Labour party the better and then we can protect the poor of the nation through Tory rule by ensuring as a nation we can keep going and not spend as much as we have had to do given the massive deficit never mind huge national debt.

[squidzin]

I've seen the list on Twitter and blogs. It's not Guardian exclusive....

[Mistigri]

mollie most people receive some benefits and simultaneously experience some withdrawals from their earnings (this is true at all levels of income btw - the tax advantages that accrue to pension contributions are a form of benefit).

What matters is the withdrawal rate - how much gets clawed back for every extra pound you earn. And it's true that this will be extremely high for some people. Now, I think it's generally accepted that tax rates that are excessively high tend to act as a disincentive to high earners. That's why punitive top tax rates don't work. So explain to me why they should work any better for low earners?

[squidzin]

Mummy, huh?
I did not copy-and-paste from the Guardian.
The Guardian are anti-Corbyn hence I have boycotted. Their board of directors are a bunch of neoliberal Blairites.

Whatever, who you worked for. Lucky you with your middle class privilege.

[Garrick]

Mummy, the wilful inability of anti-Corbynites to hear the rest of us repeating "We didn't vote for a prime minister, we voted for an opposition leader" is almost as amusing as your dismissing the 40 economists who signed an open letter on the economy as a c&p from the Guardian. What did you want me to do, get them all to phone you individually?

[mollie123]

how
did you really mean this then
for people within the tax credits / benefits system tax rates under the conservatives are pretty close to 100% or in some cases more.
most people on tax credits pay no income tax - therefore they are a misnomer
they should have been called 'wage topup benefit', 'child support benefit'
which is actually what they are

[mummymeister]

squidzin - best laugh I have had all day. all that effort to cut and paste from the Guardian.

Look I am happy to disagree with you or anyone else that Corbyn isn't the great saviour of this country riding in on his socialist charger.

I have been around a long time and seen politicians come and go. I also happen to have worked in London boroughs with Mr C. Nothing you say now or in the future is going to make me change my mind about the facts that I know to be true in relation to him as a person and how he will be perceived by this country.

at the moment, he is the new kid in town so opinions are at the polar ends of the scale. give it time and they will calm down. but, he is still unelectable and will never be PM.

The Blairites have not been ousted and you are ridiculous to think that they have. they have made a tactical withdrawal, kept out of his car crash of a cabinet and are just biding their time.

I just don't get how so many of the paid up members of the tooting popular front (showing my age here) don't see how Corbyn is coming across as an angry young student. who says "out, out out" all the time with no idea of what he wants "in, in , in" or more importantly how he is going to pay for it.

there is no way the members of his shadow cabinet whose partners are on mega salaries are going to let him introduce any sort of meaningful wage cap. so he bans anyone earning over £4m a year. so what. its a stunt.

I know why don't we just pay everyone the same amount of money regardless as to what job they do. Oh hang on that was communism and that didn't work did it.

I am not against a mansion tax but then I live in a rural area where you can still buy a family house for under £100K.

[squidzin]

Corbyn has more sense than to enable such a ridiculous pro-free- capitalist system. JC's stance on the EU is spot on in that respect.

[squidzin]

Blair was as neoliberal as they come.

As neoliberal as Thatcher.

Tax credits work as a business benefit/subsidy to enable wage compression, in the same way housing benefit enables the rental and housing boom.

JanetB I will agree with you to the extent that the day is saved, but only because Corbyn has been voted in, Blairites to be ousted.