Calling someone a 4x4 is as bad as racism

[Rufusgy]

Cbb related but I really don't see why this is acceptable at all. Should be classified as bad as many other 'isms' that have a zero tolerance in society.

I don't quite get how it's mysogeny?

You have no choice about your race but having 4 children by 4 men does as least indicate very poor judgement. Equally having 4 children by four women indicates a pretty poor attitude towards parenthood and responsibility. I don't believe a man with four different children by four different women could even hope to provide the level of parenting those children.

And when it's the mother it's usually a fairly good indication that the mother gets into relationships very quickly and very seriously without actually bothering to get to know the man well enough to know if they're trustworthy enough to look after a cat, let alone be a father. And then they invariably end up having acrimonious break ups just as quickly. Think about it from the point of view of their eldest child. One break up is traumatic enough for a child to go through, let alone four in a relatively short space of time.

One of my neighbours has this lifestyle and I feel so sorry for her eldest in particular. He's been on a merry go round of men coming into his life, getting close to them and then them basically disappearing apart from a quick wave when they come to collect his half siblings. I think it's very, very damaging for children to be brought up in that sort of environment and whether the parent is a man or woman indicates someone unwilling to put their children's welfare above their own selfish wants.

Having 4 DCs by 4 different men is a choice. Your race isn't. Of course it's nowhere near as bad.

What Kanye said (never thought I'd be saying that! ).

Well put Kanye.
People can say they don't care about what others say, it's horrible to hear and so on but what about the children involved. How damaging it must be for them to see men in and out of their lives. That type of mother is simply not putting the best interests of her children first. I can't even begin to imagine how childcare is sorted out amongst all the different men and those kids whose fathers aren't bothered, how do they feel.
As for the men who father children all over the place, they can't be called fathers or parents. I would think a child in such a home would grow up feeling even a little shame.

having 4 children by 4 men does as least indicate very poor judgement. Equally having 4 children by four women indicates a pretty poor attitude towards parenthood and responsibility.

So, the women always have poor judgement and the men are always shit fathers.

No, I think someone with 4 children, each having a different father has made poor choices that will have an adverse effect on innocent parties (the DCs in question). This is a valid reason to think less of someone.

FWIW, I would think exactly the same of a man who was the RP (of all 4 DCs) in the same situation.

Exactly this. Of course it's not 'as bad' as racism. Racism is ugly because it encourages people to form a negative opinion of strangers based on unfounded and nasty stereotypes about something (their ethniticy) they cannot affect in any way.

A mocking term like '4 x 4' is a comment on someone's behaviour, not an involuntary aspect of their identity. Irresponsibility and poor judgement are not protected characteristics, with good reason

And I don't think anyone apart from 4x4s perhaps thinks men should be allowed to father children with multiple mothers without being judged by those around them. Does anyone seriously think that's OK? Nonsense - it's a straw man argument.

Manorgrey
a man, with residential custody of 4 DCs, each with a different mother (which would be an accurate 'reversal of the genders' in this situation) would be judged just the same.

Are you kidding? Such a man would be absolutely lionised.

What if the intention was always to bring the kids up as a single parent? Is it any different from a determined woman who wants to have a couple of kids outside of a relationship and who uses a sperm bank to do so?

What about a lesbian couple who have four kids by four fathers due to donated sperm?

What about a foster mother of four unrelated children?

Even if it were the case that someone had a succession of partners because of bad relationship choices, that doesn't necessarily reflect on their parenting abilities.

Shove that's a typical mn thing. The 'what if'. There could be a hundred scenarios we can make up and try to find this as something normal.

Seriously, we have to take your word for that. We don't know what an independent third party would see, especially a professional one.

In any case, just because it appears to have worked out okay in your case doesn't mean these situations generally work out well.

What Kanye said.

It's possible to think of (highly unusual) situations that could result in an intelligent and sensible woman ending up in above scenario.

On the other hand--there is also the 99.5% probability that she is disorganized, gullible and a bit stupid.

As others have said--if my friend or someone I cared about was going out with a guy and I discovered that he had fathered four kids with four women... no, I would not beam blandly and say "Not my place to make assumptions!" I would assume that that guy was a rat. As he probably would be.

I agree with what Kayne says too

Of course there are going to be examples of when this all works out well but it is so outweighed by those where the situation is just unsettled and chaotic

Totally agree that I would judge a 4X4 man as well as a 4X4 woman. Unless there are very extenuating circumstances then having children with a series of men (or women) displays scant regard for your dcs.

It's ludicrous to say that it's the same as racism or other discriminatory language based on factors someone had no choice in.

I remember reading an interview with Natasha when she was pregnant with her 4th baby and she said that she and her dp (Richie)? were not thinking about marriage because they weren't ready for that and it was far too soon. That did shock me. She will have a baby with someone but acknowledges that the relationship is not solid enough to consider marriage?

I'm a 2x2 does that make me squared

I think it's a disgusting term to be honest with you but then I know people from other races who would be disgusted that calling someone a 4 x 4 even figures up there on equal bad footing with racially abusive language/behaviour etc...

I don't think men get called this term but they are certainly judged for it - yet in some cultures - being a baby father gets more kudos eg the more baby mommas you have...

would you also call eg a black woman a 4 x 4 as well? would this be doubly insulting if she had also experienced/and continued to experience racism etc? Thinking out loud so no one flame me please!

Rhoda can you hand on heart you say you know the experiences and full on details of every woman who's had x children by x fathers?

for all you know they could have left it too late to abort, been raped, not wanted to abort for ethical reasons etc, contraception fail - and you call them a nasty name for not knowing why?!

Superfly - I haven't noticed anyone on this thread defending the use of the term 4x4 or arguing that it is justifiable to call people rude names

There is a difference between defending freedom of thought (i.e. making an internal observation or mental note to yourself that a man or women is perhaps a bit feckless, naive, irresponsible etc because they have 4 children with 4 different partners) and defending abusive behaviour and name-calling towards the person in question

Er, I haven't called anyone a nasty name. As FunkyPeacock says, it's just what one thinks if one encounters someone who introduces serial men into a household of children. The children are clearly not the woman's priority. The man may be a feckless "cocklodger" (I think that's the term used on MN) but rarely is a man the householder with women coming and going.

You can't have it both ways: a stable background is either good or it doesn't matter. You can't complain that a child has come from a poor background with no good parental role models if you actually don't think it's much of an issue and a mother has every right to trump her dcs' wellbeing by having serial relationships resulting in children whose fathers move on.

Funky - they have in a way justified it - by saying they criticise the women who happen to be 4 x 4 etc.

To me it's a very low and cheap blow to aim at someone.

Rhoda so it's all very well to think this of someone (we all like to think we know the type... don't we?!) but not say this to their face??

It is possible to be supportive and sympathetic to someone in this situation while still acknowledging that it is not a desirable position to find oneself in and is likely to have involved significant upheaval and instability for the DC involved