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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Barrister claiming sexism after Linked-In message

429 replies

Flashbangandgone · 10/09/2015 14:20

AIBU to think she's overreacting somewhat... I'm not sure so I thought I'd check out views on here:

www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34206080/linkedin-sexism-row-charlotte-proudman-says-lawyer-used-site-like-tinder

She is clearly very attractive, and she has clearly gone to some trouble to post a photo that emphasises that. If a man compliments her for that, albeit rather clumsily, but nonetheless not in any lewd or crude manner, is that sexist or just a man gently flirting in the hope of a positive response?

If something as relatively innocuous as this appears to be is vilified as sexism, what are the boundaries for men flirting in a work-place environment without risking being charged with sexism? I wonder if her response would have been different if she had been single and she happenned to be attracted to the man making those remarks...

I've a feeling this might be controversial....

OP posts:
Egosumquisum · 13/09/2015 08:44

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Aridane · 13/09/2015 08:50

Lwejii

Your response to my post. That's the problem though - Proudman wasn't making a Rosa Parks stand against embedded sexism at work - it was a blistering (self) publicising attack on an individual who made an off-colour remark (if that).

I just hope that the negative impression she hay be creating for women at work - especially for female lawyers like me who use LinkedIn- doesn't survive the current media frenzy

JanetBlyton · 13/09/2015 08:52

For some of us it is the man who is viewed negatively and we are very pleased she made this stand.

If men have a problem with women objecting to comments about their appearance at work then that's tough and men need to stop making the comments. Thankfully the adverse publicity against this man is going to help that cause. Well done Proudman.

larrygrylls · 13/09/2015 08:53

Ego,

I guess this is where we are going to disagree. IMO you cannot extrapolate one person's behaviour with assumptions and neither can you punish someone for the sins of their 'class'. Equally I think the nudge is far more effective than the hammer.

Egosumquisum · 13/09/2015 08:53

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Lweji · 13/09/2015 08:54

It's not comparing different things. But things that do thrive on secrecy.
I make lots of comparisons between different things all the time. I think in general it helps abstract from the immediate case at hand.
Do you think domestic abuse is much different from this? Which men are domestic abusers? Isn't it all part of the same problem? How men view and treat women? (See my other post)
Also in relation to him saying something vague about work, see my other post. It has been addressed in the threads about this topic anyway. Maybe you should read them all first?

InimitableJeeves · 13/09/2015 08:54

Aridane, CP didn't resort to publicity: she didn't send a press release out. She simply put it on her own Twitter feed. 99.99% of what people put on Twitter sinks without trace, for some reason the media picked this one up.

Egosumquisum · 13/09/2015 08:55

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Lweji · 13/09/2015 08:58

I do hope she helps female layers (and any profession) in linked in get more professional exchanges with male counterparts. It's good that men and women think more carefully about appropriateness withing work.

Lweji · 13/09/2015 09:00

It's interesting how people against CP's actions can't agree on whether she has damaged her career or advancing it by means of publicity.

Maybe... none of them?

Maybe... it's an issue that's dear to her?

larrygrylls · 13/09/2015 09:02

Lweji,

No I don't. You only need fb to see millions of comments about pictures from both sexes, based purely on appearance. And statistics show that the majority of fb friends have never met one another. I would hazard to say that there would be zero correlation between these comments and domestic abide.

Lweji · 13/09/2015 09:04

BTW, Rosa Parks didn't stand. She sat. She was the one who refused to give her seat.
Whoever asked didn't have to be shamed. It was law/rules that she should have given her seat. She shamed the law.

Lweji · 13/09/2015 09:05

I'd be fine with those comments on fb. It's social.
At work I wouldn't expect (nor tolerate) a professional approach to be answered with a comment about physical appearance. It's as simple as that.

Lweji · 13/09/2015 09:09

I would hazard to say that there would be zero correlation between these comments and domestic abide.
I suspect you'd be wrong, although people choose to act differently in different situations.
In this case, he may be (almost - see comment about daughter) at home, but I bet he is widely inappropriate at work. And his colleagues very much said that, but it's was brushed aside and dismissed. I'd very much like to see more on the press about that. And about the environment for women at his practice.

Egosumquisum · 13/09/2015 09:13

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Lweji · 13/09/2015 09:21

They have a whole page about diversity.
Not sure it was there a few days ago. :)

And I'm sure you're right. The few people who have even made the comment about the filter have probably been told to shut up.

I might want to ask his daughter about how she views comments like that from her father. Does he comment about her friends too?

(Yes, still shifting focus to where it should be)

BoffinMum · 13/09/2015 09:31

Ariadne, that is exactly how I see it. There's being assertive and then there's having a tantrum. Proudman veered dangerously near the latter, not being articulate enough to handle the situation appropriately and reverting to parroted rhetoric. That is not cool and not professional.

Egosumquisum · 13/09/2015 09:34

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Lweji · 13/09/2015 09:37

Nazi even.

Which means the DM completely lost the argument too. :)

BoffinMum · 13/09/2015 09:38

Donald Trump has more tantrums than all the two year olds of MNetters put together. And people frequently call him on it.

Lweji · 13/09/2015 09:43

If what she replied to him and then posted on tweeter was having a tantrum, how can all the reactions calling her feminazi, hysterical, berserk, getting fb comments to her grandmother and to friends on fb, are?

I can see loads of people having tantrums about this, but not so much her.

If I was going what she has been called, I'd never have replied to him, I'd have used quite a few expletives, I'd have made it public on linked in and Facebook, wrote an article in the Independent about it.

In fact, I wonder if his reply didn't anger her more than the initial message.

Lweji · 13/09/2015 09:45

I've never seen Trump being called hysterical or as having a tantrum. Although it's possible. Or misogynazi, for that matter.

Egosumquisum · 13/09/2015 09:53

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Lweji · 13/09/2015 09:59

I stand corrected. Trump has been accused of having a tantrum, but, CP, take notes on how you should have a proper twitter tantrum. Never forget to insult the person you're talking about.
crooksandliars.com/2015/06/donald-trump-s-hilariously-childish
As tantrums go, it's misogynists that are having one, as well as going berserk. But that's pretty much in the mission statement at the DM, isn't it?

Egosumquisum · 13/09/2015 10:08

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