Barrister claiming sexism after Linked-In message

[Flashbangandgone]

AIBU to think she's overreacting somewhat... I'm not sure so I thought I'd check out views on here:

www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34206080/linkedin-sexism-row-charlotte-proudman-says-lawyer-used-site-like-tinder

She is clearly very attractive, and she has clearly gone to some trouble to post a photo that emphasises that. If a man compliments her for that, albeit rather clumsily, but nonetheless not in any lewd or crude manner, is that sexist or just a man gently flirting in the hope of a positive response?

If something as relatively innocuous as this appears to be is vilified as sexism, what are the boundaries for men flirting in a work-place environment without risking being charged with sexism? I wonder if her response would have been different if she had been single and she happenned to be attracted to the man making those remarks...

I've a feeling this might be controversial....

How on earth can you say that "Your picture is stunning" online is different than "You are stunning" in person?

Different how? Because one is in writing and the other travels in the air as sound waves?

Any MNetters with a PhD want to make a comment on the suggestion that Proudman being on sabbatical to work on her PhD means she is "not currently working"?

Think, Cote, think

My biggest issue is just as Proudman expected this has all become about the victim not the man, ever thus.

Commenting on someone's choice of outfit is different from how she looks.

Also:
I meet a colleague, we greet each other and mention how great we both look today. Fine.
I meet a new person and ask him to help with my mentoring scheme. He replies saying I look stunning, and i look stunning again, and he knows this is not really appropriate but he still says, and yeah ok we may eventually work together, whatever. Not ok.

Assuming CP is an intelligent woman who calculated the effect her publicising these messages would have: She is not currently working as a barrister and therefore is not negatively affected by the media circus surrounding it. She is doing a PhD in FGM and will presumably be seeking work when she completes in this field. Being known as a fearless feminist will not hurt in this regard. It is likely a calculated publicity stunt on her part.

Lweji - Not choice of outfit. We were talking about "Your picture looks stunning" online vs "You look stunning" in person in the office. Bobo thinks there is a difference between these situations and presumably that one is offensive while the other isn't.

No, you said
"You look great in that suit today"
It's choice of outfit.

But it's still different even if you change your own example mid argument.
The situations are different and I'd still be pissed off if I approached a male colleague to talk about work and he ignored me to talk about how I looked. Actually, the same with a female coworker.

"many people would be very happy to work with someone who makes a stand against unacceptable workplace behaviour."

Maybe they would. The point was that recruiters will think twice before they hire someone who went so publicly berserk over "Your picture is stunning". They have to weigh in the possibility that a similar scenario will take place one day if a male colleague or a business contact makes the mistake of saying "You look stunning today" and gets dragged down social media and national newspapers, with all the negative publicity that would entail.

It is a different matter if there were proper sexual harassment, but that is another matter. HR would take quick action against the man in that case. Even then, they would not look kindly upon the employee who publicises emails and causes a public relations disaster to the company she is working for.

""You look great in that suit today". It's a choice of outfit. "

Or is it complimenting her ass? I guess we'll never know.

If that was confusing for you, focus on the next example I gave: "Your picture is stunning" online vs "You look stunning today" in the office. The latter might happen and might be innocent. Recruiters will wonder if it is a risk to hire someone who takes grievous offence at such statements and might cause a national scandal, damaging the company's reputation. More likely than not, they will reach out for the next CV in the pile.

Head bangs table. Where to start?

Publicly shaming a company? Surely only if they didn't take action over "proper" sexual harassment.
And why not challenge sexual bias? Do you not think women face more problems in the workplace than open and clear sexual harassment?

Also, did you sleep well? You're not making much sense today.

I really don't think they will, if anything it would improve the image of the company to have someone on board who is known to have the guts to make a public stand against misogyny.

Man: Your picture looks stunning.

Woman 1: I find it offensive that you are commenting on my appearance on a website or professional networking. I am reporting you to LinkedIn management. >> Perfectly fine.

Woman 2: The eroticisation of women's physical appearance is a way of exercising power over women... Think twice before sending another woman (half your age) such a sexist message. >> Ranty over-reaction.

Woman 2 then publicising this exchange all over social media >> going publicly berserk, yes.

I would LOVE to know what his wife, and daughter, and the daughters partner if she has one, think of him saying 'ye gods she is well hot' or whatever it was.

Probably if the wife and daughter have been around his stupid unthinking sexist comments for years, they think it is a normal comment for a father to make about a daughter. It isn't. It's icky. If anyone in my family made a comment like that about my DD, they would get the sharp end of my tongue. If my dad said somethig like that to me I would feel sick!
I think it was so bad because of the way the DD was sparsley clad, a 'normal' dad comment would be something like 'you look lovely in that dress sweetheart'.

He can't be very intelligent if he does not realise that 'stunning' and 'hot' have very different overtones to general politeness in complimenting someones new outfit.

"Publicly shaming a company? Surely only if they didn't take action over "proper" sexual harassment. "

I don't know if you have any experience of working in or with law firms but publicity of this sort is not something they would appreciate, regardless of whether management was taking the allegations seriously and doing something about them.

" You're not making much sense today."

Reading my posts again might help. If you read the one you thought was about commenting on clothes again, for example, I'm sure you would have quickly understood it.

"Probably if the wife and daughter have been around his stupid unthinking sexist comments for years, they think it is a normal comment for a father to make about a daughter."

The comments we know about were not unthinking, because they were both prefaced with phrases acknowledging that he shouldn't be saying them.

She put it on twitter. The media is making a circus out of it. Particularly a certain newspaper.

But I do think that it is a good thing that these issues are being discussed openly. Reporting it quietly achieves very little.
Each of us would have reacted in different ways, there might have been more "dignified" responses.
But for an activist this is what actually has a chance to reach the wider community and address the issue of discreet insidious sexism.
Making a fuss may not be well regarded socially, but changes are rarely accomplished without it.

I also agree Proudman has not gone 'berserk'. She wasn't behaving like a screeching fishwife off Jeremy Kyle!

She has handled herself professionally, remaining dignified under the media spotlight, she has taken a stand for what she knows to be right, to benefit other women less strong/influential than herself.