Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

holmessweetholmes · 09/09/2015 15:06

Thanks Spartans Flowers. I know lots of people are going to think that I am one of the 'shouty, awful' teachers after my rant. But I decided I wanted to teach when I was 12. I never wanted to do anything else. Like pretty much all teachers, I chose it because I loved my subject and wanted to help and encourage young people. I was largely popular with my pupils and am pleased that I managed to help many (not just with my subject, but with problems in their lives). But, like many teachers, I've had enough. Comments like those on this thread make teaching feel not just like a hard task but a thankless one too.

stilllearnin · 09/09/2015 15:18

I prefer to pick my battles and dont care about uniform. I'll comply if I can.

But the New head at ds' school meant new rules 1 week before term started. It's massively unworkable because he has not been very thorough in his list of approved products from approved retailers, causing confusion and so pupils whose shoes etc are neither on the approved or acceptable list have to wait for the head to decide. He also comes into lessons lines up the girls and measures their skirt length with his metre rule! The kids have 3 ckeckpoints between blocks causing bottlenecks.

So it really is not a question of parents allowing their children to flout the rules - they are not clear and parents are being vilified. He does however also check teachers attire. He has measured teachers skirt length and made them remove nail polish. The school had phenomenal exam results, really top stuff, and great behaviour.

RushallBumblebee · 09/09/2015 15:22

My DD never disrespected her teachers, if she had she would have had to answer to me, she did however use the systems in place to ask why some rules were there and the put her own side across... and on 2 occasions the school respected her views so much things changed.
I still say children shouldn't be brought up to blindly follow rules just because they are there but respect is a different matter entirely.

mijas99 · 09/09/2015 15:42

Ha ha, look at those fat and ugly common people [Daily Mail]

I may have a shit life, but at least I'm not as stupid as them [Daily Mail reader]

SenecaFalls · 09/09/2015 15:51

He also comes into lessons lines up the girls and measures their skirt length with his metre rule!

He has measured teachers skirt length and made them remove nail polish.

This is highly objectionable and sexist.

IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou · 09/09/2015 15:52

YES I do believe its everyones place to question why things are done and if the answer isn't satisfactory to see what can be changed to make things better...

Ah, you're what we in the trade call a "Pain in the Arse", I've just made the last one in our department redundant Grin - it comes back to bite you in the arse eventually, believe me!!

Spartans · 09/09/2015 15:54

still that assumes that all schools don't communicate effectivly.

As for the examples given in the OP, no way did the woman think that leopard print hair may be acceptable. I don't believe that case was miscommunication at all.

If a school has communicated badly, that needs to be addressed. But it's rarely the case when parents have run to the press.

holmes please don't take attitudes on here to seriously. most parents I know are grateful and reapect teachers. It's an odd thing on mn, it's seems 'trendy' to dislike teachers and encourage kids to actively disrespect their teachers. I actually doubt they act like it in RL.

As rush said you can challenge the status quo and be respectful at the same time. That's what parents should be teaching their kids.

Melawen · 09/09/2015 17:56

Has anyone noticed she's now wearing a banana?! Best typo on Metro ever!!

to love the back to school rule flouter photos?
uneducated · 09/09/2015 18:16

I think the family are looking for a television series !.

Next Stop for the family : Benefit Britain Jeremy Kyle and a place in Big Brother ....

Spartans · 09/09/2015 18:18

Grin love how she is wearing a banana to cover it up! That's ingenious! Serves as a snack too!

Spartans · 09/09/2015 18:19

The sad thing is, they probably think the DM has printed it to support them. When in reality I believe they print this stuff to make fun of them. The families don't even see it.

Sadik · 09/09/2015 18:30

" I do believe its everyones place to question why things are done - Ah, you're what we in the trade call a "Pain in the Arse", I've just made the last one in our department redundant grin - it comes back to bite you in the arse eventually, believe me!!"

Very foolish and short sighted, I'd say. I've always valued employees who question why things are done a certain way. Sometimes there's a good reason, which I will explain. Other times we've made big improvements to systems or policies because an employee will notice something that I don't.

Sadik · 09/09/2015 18:33

Also, I'd say that on the whole in life if you're very good at what you do, you can dress how the hell you like and no-one will complain. I've always made this point to dd - make sure you're the student who is very evidently going to improve their exam results and give them a good story for the local paper, and you'll find magically that petty rules don't get enforced Grin

Bunbaker · 09/09/2015 18:44

"I've always valued employees who question why things are done a certain way."

I think it depends on how it is done.

For example I wanted to ask DD's school about their bullying policy so I worded it in terms of "I'd like to understand why..." which is not in the least bit confrontational, and more likely to get results.

Any confrontational questions tend to get the parent labelled as a troublemaker.

feckitall · 09/09/2015 19:13

www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/13654360.Pupil_with__extreme__hairstyle_sent_home_from_school/

Another hairstyle one...with accompanying 'stroppy Mail style' sad face..
Grin

cruikshank · 09/09/2015 19:22

We really do, as a country, need to get over our pathetic fetishisation of pointless rules and Enid Blyton-style 'serves you right' finger-wagging admonishment of people who break them. It's fucking embarrassing. No other country in Europe has school uniform, much less arcane modes of punishment for breaking the code. Even America, which is about as conformist a country as you can get, doesn't have school uniform. It adds no value to education. It adds no value to personal development. It teaches pupils nothing about life.

Wtf is wrong with someone having their hair done in the style they want? Are their follicles going to interfere with their physics GCSE questions? Are their shoes going to do damage to their maths paper?

The entire thing is fucking ridiculous.

stilllearnin · 09/09/2015 19:54

sorry Spartan I was typing quickly. I really mean it is not always about parents trying to flout the rules. I do think there are quite a few cases where the school have a policy and then decide how to interpret it and somehow change the policy in doing so, catching otherwise supportive parents out - you do see it quite a lot of that on these threads. (apart from the banana of course!).

I am not a fan of uniform - dress code is fine but its the pettiness that is illogical. But why would you want a confrontation - quite often you need to ask school to help your child and why would you want to destroy goodwill? (that goes both ways, of course).

And yes Seneca the metre rule has been out regularly and I do think it is a bit questionable. My dd would have been mortified and she is a good girl.

I do think that there is not much teacher bashing on mn - maybe it is just the threads I read - but I think its reasonably balanced.

longtimelurker101 · 09/09/2015 21:35

Pah, not much teacher bashing, there are threads all over the place, one about spelling (hilariously with bad grammar and spelling in the OP), one about school asking for money, just right now. There are hundreds in AIBU alone.

Lets be honest, most teachers want the kids to come to school and obey the rules, get on and learn. I think uniform has some good aspects but it does cause issues in some cases, when too draconian.

I agree that heads of failing schools often introduce new uniforms to no avail, its part of the corporatisation of schools a rebranding exercise, and yes sometimes can have an impact, but not if it happens regularly.

Personally I'd opt for a dress code, but I don't actually see that happening any time soon. I'd really like our 6th form to have one just to cut down on the fashion parade element ( and yes even when they can wear their own clothes there is that).

Lets face it, uniform isn't going anywhere soon, parents know what the rules are, shoes, hair cuts etc. Lots of work places have rules like this so its good for kids to get used to it. I've known parents plead poverty and scream blue murder when told their child can't wear those shoes, a good example was last year, boy in Nike Air Max black trainers Dad said he couldn't afford any more. Well don't spend over ??100 on trainers and buy shoes and trainers for less!

RollerGirl7 · 09/09/2015 22:15

I went to a school where you had to take your coat off at he gate, so if you get there early you weren't allowed to wait around outside wearing your coat.

It was against the rules to take your tie off on the way home.

yr 11 boys got excluded for refusing to shave their beard.

1 yr 11 boy got excluded for shaving his head, it was a number 1 so obviously very short but still an acceptable hair style I'd say

Rules that have no purpose are ridiculous and smack of controlling for the sake of it

stilllearnin · 10/09/2015 07:08

101 I must just not read those then, which is possible as I spend most of my time discussing the archers and lentil recipes. Luckily my kid are generally liked by teachers because they tend to understand that teachers are people with all the normal good and bad bits.

At my ds' school it is about a new head exerting control. The behaviour of the kids is amazing. DS has never seen any bullying at all and he was beaten up 3 times in 8 days at his last school. The exam results are out of this world, so why make parents feel like crap when they are not deliberately flouting rules? Weird eh? Hoping it will calm down but not that hopeful.

Spartans · 10/09/2015 09:15

still I do agree it's not always about the parents. Dds school (when at primary) said PE was always on Tuesday for her year.

I always sent it in, and yet there would be a phone call on another random day asking for me to bring it down. I am able to as I work from home, not far from the school. I pointed out that surely all the parents couldn't bring it in short notice. It took us complaining to decide to bring it in Monday and leave it there and take home on Friday, so they could have it whenever they wanted. Really infuriating. I love the idea of having a last minute extra PE lesson, they were preparing for SATs and sometimes a break was needed. I totally supported what the school was doing, just not how they were doing it.

Mistigri · 10/09/2015 09:33

What really concerns me about all of this is the rather worrying behaviour and attitudes from some schools. Measuring skirts with a ruler? How is this acceptable? And suggesting that male teachers need protecting from girls in skirts, or with slightly figure hugging trousers? None of this is remotely acceptable. Just imagine for one moment if a manager at your workplace tried to measure a female employee's skirt, and what sanctions this would lead to.

A friend of mine - who is a secondary school teacher and doesn't have much time for the leopard hair brigade - was posting last night on FB about the difficulties of buying trousers that are just the right amount of not-too-tight for her 14 year old with the figure of an adult woman when school uniform codes are often designed with the pre-pubescent figure in mind. This isn't an issue for boys and its fundamentally pretty sexist.

frangipan · 10/09/2015 18:44

I have to buy my ds new shoes this weekend. In July ( and I missed this on the website apparently) the head decided there must be no colouring on the soles of shoes either. I sent my ds back to school in the shoes he had worn for the entire previous year. They were expensive at the time but he is a slow grower and they are still going strong, they have brown on the sole but this can only be seen when he lifts his foot up. Within two hours of the new term I had a phone call at work to say they are no longer acceptable and he needed new ones by the morning.

I am picking my battles and will buy new ones on this occasion, but I will be questioning why it takes them two hours to pick fault and contact me with ds's shoes and five weeks for them to tell me they have had an email from the LEA telling them to tell me I need to get back in touch with CAMHS about my ds's AEN assessment. Frustrated, moi? Nope not me. Angry

Gileswithachainsaw · 10/09/2015 19:17

omfg they actually check the bottom of the shoes. Wtf? ??

Zinkies · 10/09/2015 19:27

I wouldn't generally advise a child or young person to go to school; schools are silly and if they weren't so ubiquitous we would see them as strange and incompatible with all our other ostensible values.

On an individual level on the other hand, what do you expect? That's what schools are like in Britain. If anything, not "letting" children go to school with unusual haircuts or whatever empowers children because it gives them an easy way of not going to school that no one can do anything about without physically assaulting them, which is now much more taboo than other means of trying to coerce them.

There is a broader political argument when (as is usually the case when reported in the media) these are state schools, as in that case we all own and have paid for the schools. People should be able to access public institutions created for their benefit without having to wear fancy-dress.

Swipe left for the next trending thread