to love the back to school rule flouter photos?

[giraffesCantDoThat]

They are brilliant.

Happens every single year. I love the claims that their human rights are being violated - go and tell that to the Syrians!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3224954/School-sent-13-year-old-girl-home-leopard-print-hair-cut.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3219558/Furious-parents-blast-petty-headmaster-FIFTY-children-sent-home-day-school-wearing-wrong-kind-shoes.html

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-29911712

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3222494/Dozens-pupils-sent-home-school-day-term-breaching-new-uniform-rules-including-wearing-wrong-PE-socks.html

Wtf? I meant wear trousers!

Schools waste far, far too much time obsessing about uniform. I get it that it's helpful to try to stop children trying to one-up each other in terms of who can wear the most fashionable labels, but you can avoid that without spending hours measuring the length of skirts and fussing because someone has black shoes rather than brown. As for ties - when you think about it, they really are extraordinarily ridiculous garments.

What is particularly ridiculous is the headteachers claiming that they are doing this because it keeps academic standards up. Of course it doesn't. What keeps academic standards up is good teaching. How otherwise do they account for the schools without uniforms which regularly outperform comparable schools?

It is also absurd when heads exclude pupils for wearing the wrong uniform, given that that is unlawful. How can you claim to be enforcing rules when you are breaking the law yourself?

How do schools with draconian rules on skirt length (hem must touch floor when kneeling, etc) get round the fact that not all people are exactly the same size? DD's school has a regulation from-the-uniform-shop skirt that is 20" long. DD is 5' 2" and some of her friends are 5' 10" or more. It's not rocket science to understand that their hemlines are not all going to be at the same level. (Although I have always taken the hem on DD's up to redress the balance - it's not meant to be below the knee!)

They don't, ime, LadyWellian.

They leave it to the parents to find a way.

My tall, but slim DC is wearing a skirt 2 - 3 sizes too big, which has been taken in around the waist, to make it fit. It looks silly. You can plainly see that it is not meant to be that length, but it was the only way I could find one long enough, even the over priced school shop's skirts would've come up short on her if we'd ordered the right waist fitting.

Sometimes, tho, it's the interpretation of the rules. My dd's school decided to crack down on kids not tucking their blouses/shirts in to skirts/trousers. My dd wore ladies fitted blouses, as she is big busted and narrow waisted, so she didn't have loads of fabric bunched up around her waist. These blouses don't stay tucked in, they're not long enough. She was constantly being told off, even reported to the headteacher, who sent home a letter with a copy of the uniform list, saying if she wouldn't obey the rules, she needed to look for another school (this is a week after a letter commending her for her presentation at the Royal Institute) I replied, pointing out that nowhere in the uniform rules did it say blouses/shirts needed to be tucked in, or even needed to be long enough to be tucked in. End of story. Bdm tuss.

Thankfully DD's school aren't that bothered as long as it's the regulation skirt. Although they have had a footwear crackdown this year after allowing (or perhaps tolerating) black trainers last year. Also hair must now be a natural (although not necessarily one's natural) colour. Oddly enough the leopard-print hair fits the letter of that particular law, if not the spirit!

If I were to rank the qualities I would want the school to impart to my DCs mindlessly following pointless and often sexist uniform rules without protest would not make the list.

Yes, but why should a school base anything on what YOU personally would put on your list of desirable qualities?

Should everyone be able to decide which rules they consider worthwhile and ignore the others? Maybe tell their child not to bother turning up for certain subjects because they are pointless? Or ignore certain behaviour rules because they don't agree with them?

A school needs rules. Quite a lot of them. They give clear boundaries to kids, many of whom badly need some boundaries. Sure, some of the rules are more important than others, but that doesn't mean it's ok to just ignore the others.

And why is it 'blindly' following rules? I'm sure that you or the school can explain to your child the reasons that schools choose to have a uniform (even if you don't agree with those reasons). Claiming that the only people who need to be able to follow rules are concentration camp guards is ridiculous and inaccurate.

On the sexism point I totally agree, although I don't personally know of any schools that still require girls to wear skirts etc. That should be challenged through the appropriate channels.

holmessweetholmes I agree that schools need rules but the rules about uniform are just rules for the sake of rules. Also they are used to exclude students, often those students who would benefit the most from being kept within the school system.

My DCs' school is a poor one and as I mentioned up thread, has changed its uniform repeatedly (though it has changed it's Head even more frequently). These uniform changes have not improved the school. They just look like 'busy work' by new Heads wanting to show that they are in charge. They are just a distraction. The school's problems are not connected with what the students wear but in the repeated failures of management within the school. Every second spent on fussing about school uniform is a second away from addressing the school's true problems.

It is expensive to kit children out with a school uniform but I still think it's cheaper than them wearing their normal clothes. If they didn't have lots of the 'right' sorts of outfits they would get bullied for that. If someone only has a couple of nice tops how many times do you think they'd get away with wearing them before they got "Is that all you ever wear, haven't you got any other clothes?" or similar. Also you'd have loads of extra washing as you wouldn't get away with rubbing marks off a sweatshirt with a baby wipe to 'make it last one more day' not that I ever do that of course - ahem!.

It's hard enough keeping up with ds's growth spurts as it is, without having to replace everything in his wardrobe so he's got clothes for school. Much easier to buy a couple of bits of uniform and have done with it. He doesn't need all that much to wear in the holidays and at weekends as he lives in jeans anyway.

If the people who hate paying out for uniform were talking about sending their dcs to school in their scruffiest, almost-outgrown, doesn't-matter-if-they-ruin-them-in-the-playground clothes in order to save money I might understand, but that'll never happen!

Uniform rules are important. A strict uniform policy, which also stipulates hairstyles which do not attract attention, sets the correct tone and atmosphere for learning. Skirt length is similarly important - too short and it can be a distraction. Children have to learn to follow rules. Question - has the girl's mother ever had a job which required her to follow rules/ wear uniform? Has she ever had a job? Does she understand that the school is trying to prepare her child for the employment market? She wouldn't have a hope of employment in many customer facing jobs if she looked like that.

Skirt length is similarly important - too short and it can be a distraction

Shouldn't we be teaching men and boys that girl's legs are not there to titillate them, instead of teaching girl's to manage their own behaviour and dress in order to not distract the poor, vulnerable men folk who can't help but stare when they should be studying?

Yes but why should a school base anything on what YOU personally would put on your list of desirable qualities?

Because I do not pick the qualities by pinning the tail on a donkey but on rational argument based on centuries of thinking about moral education and I publish my thoughts in peer reviewed journals and monographs.

I didn't argue against the following of rules, the concentration camp example was a reference to the Nurenberg trials defence of 'I was just following rules' which implies that if you follow rules you are justified in what you do regardless of the content of those rules. Hence the use of the term 'mindless' rules.

The argument is fairly simple. Would you like your child to be described as someone who 'Always wears the approved length skirt', 'Has acquired the right colour blazer' and 'Consistently changed into the school PE kit', or as kind, generous and fair? Schools are spending too much time and effort and placing too much emphasis on what is at best trivial and at worst misogynistic and stifling of creativity and individuality.

www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/13651259.Pupils_banned_from_classes___for_breaking__pencil_case__rules/

Here is another one for you...

I don't see why wearing correct uniform is in any way related to being kind, generous and fair.

But nice to see Godwin's law in action.

Is your post in response to mine Viking? If yes, I am completely confused as I said the complete opposite, I.e. being kind, generous and fair has nothing to do with wearing the right uniform and it's hard enough to help children become kind, generous and fair people without being distracted by irrelevancies.

Ironically this is a good example where the sarcasm of Godwin's law doesn't apply as the analogy was apt and relevant.

I'm not a believer that uniform makes for a better learning environment or creates a sense for belonging which wouldn't otherwise exist. However if the school your child goes to has a clear, reasonable uniform policy then you should adhere to it to the best of your ability.

I do think the schools are a bit daft. However I think sad face photos for the daily fail are dafter.

She could have done her hair like that at the beginning of the holidays, enjoyed it for 6 weeks and it would be grown out by the start of term.

I'd be seriously fucked off if my child was excluded from school for a haircut.

This is one of those inevitable return to school issues. Bet somewhere there are sad face cave paintings waiting to be discovered

Uniform rules are important. A strict uniform policy, which also stipulates hairstyles which do not attract attention, sets the correct tone and atmosphere for learning. Skirt length is similarly important - too short and it can be a distraction. Children have to learn to follow rules.

If it is so important how the hell does the rest of Europe manage to get educated without it?

Uniform doesnt teach students anything useful about how to dress appropriately. Instead it teaches students to dress without thought or care. It teaches students that so long as they have the prescribed clothes on it doesnt matter whether those clothes are suitable for weather and work conditions, clean or in good repair.

No wonder the British have a reputation for being badly dressed.

I am a fan of uniform and strict rules. However I do believe that schools seem to be outdoing each other with lots of high profile petty rules.

I think this is because many parents equate strict uniform policies with good discipline and work ethic and the schools deliberately act harshly at the beginning of terms to become high profile. It is self serving and done with the wrong motives. I am cynical by nature.

I also believe an expensive logo heavy uniform is a convenient way to keep out the poorer students. Pesky underachievers that they are. I'd like to see some research into price of uniform verses fsm percentages.

It is perfectly possible to have a smart uniform without the huge cost. And those that say if you don't wish to pay the cost of expensive uniforms, well state education is meant to be free at the point of access and it is inherently unfair to deliberately exclude children whose families can't afford the price of expensive uniforms. It is outrageous.

Imagine having to fork out money prior to visiting your GP or hospital. All very well for the comfortably off to happily pay, how about a thought for the lone parent struggling in a minimum wage job?

Also being poor does not mean that you don't want the best for your children. Most of us do, we just want it to be accessible and affordable for our kids too.

I so agree about the way uniform gets enforced pointlessly and sometimes harmfully. DS' school obsesses about pupils wearing blazers regardless of the weather, particularly for things like assemblies - it's as if having serried rows of identically dressed pupils is more important to the head than those pupils' wellbeing. DS absolutely hates wearing anything with long sleeves, even in cold weather, and couldn't work effectively when he was so uncomfortable.

We ultimately established that he has a sensory problem and got a medical report that he shouldn't be made to wear clothes made out of heavy or thick material with long sleeves. DS has still regularly been told off for not wearing uniform, until we persuaded the school to give him a card that he could produce to the staff concerned. it still annoys some of the staff intensely that they can't punish him for it.

The number of people on this thread advocating for conformity and blindly following rules (regardless of whether those rules make sense) is so depressing.

Rules! Rules! Rules ARE SO IMPORTANT! We don't know WHY. They just are. Don't question them!

And also school uniform rules tend to be both sexist (skirts v trousers) and racist (prescribed hair styles that don't account for afro hair or religious observance)

Blimey.

My DD managed to persuade her school that having bright pink hair was beneficial to her education as it made her feel better about her self and having better self esteem means she would perform better.
She also complained about their leather shoe rule as she is vegetarian and obviously wouldn't wear the real thing but also didn't want people to think she was wearing leather so she wouldn't be wearing pleather either... canvass shoes it was then.
She was constantly being told that her skirts were too short and distracting for the boys to which she answered "well teach them not to look then we all have legs and i will not be covering mine up"
I think they gave up calling me when they said 'do you want your child to be thought of as the one with brightly coloured hair' and i reminded the teacher that i had bright purple hair.