to love the back to school rule flouter photos?

[giraffesCantDoThat]

They are brilliant.

Happens every single year. I love the claims that their human rights are being violated - go and tell that to the Syrians!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3224954/School-sent-13-year-old-girl-home-leopard-print-hair-cut.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3219558/Furious-parents-blast-petty-headmaster-FIFTY-children-sent-home-day-school-wearing-wrong-kind-shoes.html

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-29911712

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3222494/Dozens-pupils-sent-home-school-day-term-breaching-new-uniform-rules-including-wearing-wrong-PE-socks.html

Iknowiam

That's how I turned up for a job interview once.

I didn't own a pair of shoes, so clean (newish) docs were better than trainers.
All my clothes were jeans or joggers, so jeans it was. And I had 2 days previously dyed my hair a whole rainbow of colours...

I still have that job, more than 10 years later.

I also did the maths assignment in yellow highlighter thing. Had to,write over the whole lot in black biro.

I had two skirts. One was too small and summer weight. The other was too big and winter weight. I had to wear one for a week, then while it was washed I wore the other one for a week.

My ds has 8 shiny new shirts. All clean. Trying to get him to wear a clean one each day is a nightmare.

We were never allowed to call staff by their first names, but a few signed their names on forms.

I still remember some of their first names now, must have been "top secret" info back then...

Rob j
Helen s
Paul g
Rob m
Alwyn g
Christine d
Rob a

We had a lot of robs!

this name thing.

at pre school it's first names. primary and secondary it's mr/mis/ms/mrs

go to college and back to first names

anyone know why?

fyi at college everyone managed to work in their own clothed with whatever hair style or colour they wanted. only stipulation being it's tied back when required for h&s.

are higher educational staff afraid to make a stand towards people who are probably as tall or bigger and as strong as they are.

or do schools just like children to "know their place" which is beneath them and to hang off their words and instructions like little lap dogs.

The clue is in the name though - UNIFORM!
Its about learning to follow rules.

I used to go to private school and one of the rules was that the skirt had to be over your knees if you were kneeling down - this meant that they had a variety of lengths to suit tall and short girls alike, which seems more sensible than just having a single length of skirt.

I've also been to other private schools without uniforms. Most people just wore jeans and t-shirts.

I love the Daily Mash article, Betty

"are higher educational staff afraid to make a stand towards people who are probably as tall or bigger and as strong as they are."

I think it is to do with recognising that the students are now adults. They get treated more as equals.

"or do schools just like children to "know their place" which is beneath them and to hang off their words and instructions like little lap dogs."

This is to do with recognising authority and perhaps having respect for your elders. When DD was at primary school she would dismiss something I suggested, but if a teacher had suggested the same thing she wouldn't.

Maybe because jeans and t shirts are practical and comfortable and easily adaptable with extra layers if it's cold or whatever.

doesn't that kind of prove you can do away with unifirm and most people are able to dress for Conditions/activities given the chance

technically they are not though. they are 16

I had a variety of teachers at secondary. those who were harsh and shout and picked on little things and as a result people were to afraid to ask for help with homework or subject matter and seemed to relish om sending people to office to remove nail polish. no one respected those teachers and in fact it hindered progress.

and we had the teachers who actually treated us like people. allow us to discuss more adult matters listened to our ideas and opinions and guess what no one took the piss. people enjoyed being actively involved in lessons and being spoken too.

those were then teachers who were respected.

I don't think any teacher or in deed adult should automatically be respected.

that doesn't mean that you don't conduct yourself in an appropriate manner. being polite kind friendly helpful etc but teachers are just people. and like people yku get nice ones, nasty ones, rude ones, kind ones. ones who lie and contradict themselves and those who prove time and time again you can trust them and ask.them help.

teaching a child to respect a teacher no matter how nasty or spiteful they are is just teaching them to ignore their gut feelings and to think they dont matter and it's ok to be treated like crap.

respect is earnt.

00100001
So why didn't you argue about rules you thought were wrong?
I have brought up children who question why they should do something and that's a great thing to instil in them.
If we all obey the rules just because we are told we have to with out asking why then the future of the world is pretty bleak... where are the Martin Luther Kings or the Gandhis or the suffragettes of the future going to come from when all our children have been told obey those in power even if you dont agree with them?

Gileswithachainsaw Tue 08-Sep-15 12:37:13

Trousers which are too long is easily solved by just taking up the hem. Even my crap sewing skills can cope with that<

doesn't solve the problem with the duck sides and the yards of material in strange places though does it.or the fact the style in general is not a good fit
--

I meant if the only problem is that they're too long then just take them up.

Snowfilledsky Tue 08-Sep-15 12:12:57

I have DSs Muddling. There was a long thread about school shoes a few weeks ago and a quick google showed that boys and girls have a massive range to choose from in every style imaginable, many of them unisex. < < <

I must admit we tend to stick to Clarks as I have kids with high insteps and shops, and therefore options, are more limited for them as they usually need to try them on.

There do seem to be more options of foot covering styles of shoes for girls when they're older and can do laces, younger than that t-bars seem to be the best that can be done unless they wear boots. However, at least with Clarks's, I'm not convinced that the girls' are as hardwearing as the boys'. DD has girls' shoes this year and I swear they just don't seem to hold the polish on the toes as well as the boys' shoes she's had in previous years. (She's currently Y4.)

Ds has a doctors letter because his feet do not fit into normal shoes. The trouble we had trying to convince the HT that ds could not wear the black lace up shoes that all the other boys wore was only resolved when I told him he was more than welcome to take ds shopping and see if he could find anything to fit him.

where are the Martin Luther Kings or the Gandhis or the suffragettes of the future going to come from when all our children have been told obey those in power even if you dont agree with them?

Lol. Quite - imagine if MLK hadn't taken his famous stand against white girls in England dying their hair to look like an animal's pelt!

It reminds me of that famous poem:

^First they came for the girls in the bodycon skirts, and they told them they would need to find a more appropriate skirt for school and if they did not do that then they might get a bad mark in their planner... and I did not speak out -
Because I was not wearing a bodycon skirt.

Then they came for the Converse-wearers, and I did not speak out...

Then they came for me, and I pulled a Daily Mail sadface.^

Oh ffs. Do schools want kids to know their place? Umm... yes, actually. Their place is listening to their teachers, learning and behaving in an appropriate and respectful manner to other pupils and staff (regardless of whether they personally like or respect that pupil or teacher). The same as a teacher's place is to help and educate the pupils (regardless of his or her opinion of individual pupils).

Do some of you really honestly believe that it's ok for your dc to just disregard rules at school if they don't see the point of them? Or perhaps spend school time engaging the staff in lively debates about the rules and why they shouldn't need to follow them?

But the problem rarely is that they are just too long.

it's hard to explain but the cut of the trousers and teh length go hand in hand. where a slight flare kicks out dies not look right if they are turned up. if they expect the chikd to he tall enough to fit the trousers then where the crotch sits/how much material around the bum is decided to work in accordance. so you could theoretically just turn up but what you have looks silly because the rest of it is still out of synch.

because if the trousers were shorter the flare would start higher up or lower down or whatever. it's obvious and it looks daft the same way trousers that are too shirt would do because the waist would he in the wrong place and the crotch too tight etc

So its ok for teachers to model rude agressice shouty behaviour, pick on students etc cos basically the kids have to sit and take it.

So its ok for teachers to model rude agressice shouty behaviour, pick on students etc cos basically the kids have to sit and take it

Who on earth said that? Or have you confused the idea that sometimes it's appropriate for children to follow rules even if they personally don't like the rule, with the idea that teachers are allowed to shout at immobile children?

the point is that some teachers feel they should be respected merely became they are a teacher. when in fact it has the opposite effect.

I already said that people should behave in an acceptable way regardless of how someone behaves towards them. but respect isn't earnt by lulling peolel up on uniform and being petty. you don't need a special hair cut to be able to behave. and you don't need to shout or be petty to earn the respect of your students. and if they cared as much about the subject they were teaching or creating interesting and informative lessons as they did about what skirt a girl was wearing then maybe the schools wouldn't have the problems they do.

uniform is just a platform to give teachers authority where they had none and is basically a ticket to pick on who they don't like.

the real issues are often left undealt with but hey the uniform is smart

YES I do believe its everyones place to question why things are done and if the answer isn't satisfactory to see what can be changed to make things better...

How is teaching children that anything other in a completely bland room with nothing brightly coloured and making sure all body parts covered up at all times preparing them for the adult world where things can be going manic behind you but you still have to do your job with out being distracted.

God - have you ever taught in a secondary school? Teachers shouting at poor meek defenceless children who are sitting in their seats 'taking it'?! Yeah right. Almost all of the shouting and raging I've ever seen in schools has been done by the pupils.
And uniform is, in many ways, the bane of teachers' lives. Do you really think teachers want to spend their time nit-picking about skirt length etc? Teachers would rather get on with doing the job they chose to go into - i.e. actually teaching. However, if the school has a uniform, the teachers are required to uphold it. They don't sneak vindictively round the corridors hoping to triumphantly catch someone with a loose tie or the wrong colour socks .

And yes, the teacher should be respected (at least superficially!) because of the fact that they are a teacher. Teachers are in loco parentis and are expected to be in charge of their pupils. The respect they should be given is a function of the job they hold. In much the same way as you need to do what a police officer tells you, regardless of whether you personally respect them. Or do what your boss tells you (or expect to lose your job).

I'd laugh at the 'all you need to do is create interesting lessons and the kids will all behave' thing if it didn't make me so fucking livid. Teachers are leaving the profession in their droves. They drive themselves into depression and burnout doing their very best to fascinate and enthuse their pupils, only to have it thrown back in their faces either by unappreciative and unsupportive managers or by kids who don't give a fuck about their education and have not been brought up to be able to behave like civilised human beings. I teach adults and individual private pupils now, thank god. 20 years was more than enough for me.

I wish all parents could do a week teaching in an average comprehensive school.

Anyway, this thread is wining me up. I'm done.

*winding

I haven't clicked on the links. I don't much like uniform - I think partly because it has to follow rules without necessarily using common sense. I don't like stories about kids getting into trouble for wearing coats and I don't like seeing teenage girls in blazers, tight shirts and miniskirts - yes they are wearing ties but they look like strippers. It just isn't sensible.

So its ok for teachers to model rude agressice shouty behaviour, pick on students etc cos basically the kids have to sit and take it.confused

Some teachers are shit. If a teacher does these things, there is a protocol to follow.

How does this relate to wearing school uniform? Having a shit teacher does not mean you can have a leopard print hair do. It's not even related.

Teachers shod be respected imo. Like the police officers, nhs staff etc should be.

If one person who happens to do this job happens to be a dick. That needs dealing with. But being a dick yourself or allowing your child to be rude...isn't solving the issue.

Does '2 wrongs don't make a right' not exist anymore?

holmes as a parent I don't want to do a week teaching. Because I just can't do it. I know I cant.

There are many parents that do appreciate teachers and everything they do. I promise we are out there. Just not that many of us on mn, apparantly.

Oh for god's sake, the mumsnet anti teacher cabal rides again, you lot are entitled to say the least.

Schools have uniform, for better or worse they are there and the rules need to be followed, its part of socialisation and the hidden curriculum. Lots of you would be the first to be complaining if someone else didn't follow the rules and gets away with it (see threads passim)

To liken rebelling against school uniform to Martin Luther King or anyone else is a fallacy, a false equivalence in fact, please don't compare kids at school with those who made massive changes to

Lots of parents quite like it, its relatively cost effective, for example if you take the most expensive uniform costs of ??300 quoted on here. That works out as ??1.57 a day, or ??7.84 a week but only for the weeks that your child is in school. That's not bad going really, less than what you get in child benefit.

You want your child to question everything and not do things that they deem unfair. Fine, home educate, you can't expect organisations to change just for you and your whims. If you have a real issue complain to the governors and they will do something about if they think its reasonable.

You think teachers need to "earn" the respect of pupils? Tell you what, I went to university, got a degree, and decided to give a fair whack of my time and effort back to educating others, that deserves respect. If I have to "earn" your child's respect because you told them that it makes life much more difficult to me. No one I work with picks on kids cause they don't like them, that's the excuse kids give for getting into trouble.