migrants - AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

[lovelyconverse123]

My understanding of the migrant crisis is that the majority of the migrants are coming from countries which do not, in any way, share or support Western beliefs/values/way of life. They are now flooding into Western Europe in the hundreds of thousands. Nobody knows who they are or their background in their home country. AIBU to wonder what will be the result of this ?

They are fleeing war/violence etc. AIBU to wonder why, when they reach Hungary, which is a 'safe' country, (although economically depressed), is it not good enough and they are determined to reach Germany, UK, Austria etc ?

AIBU to wonder why the majority of these migrants feel it is acceptable to stampede through European law immigration procedures to reach their chosen country rather than wait and be correctly processed in the 'safe country they have landed in ? Surely if a person has landed in a 'safe' country, after witnessing goodness knows what in their home country, they should respect and adhere to the policies and procedures of that country ?

AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

I would like to hear your calm and measured thoughts please................

Kanye, just so I know, do you believe we should offer more help to the Syrian refugees?

I think we should be offering to take in some Syrian refugees, but based on need, rather than simply who has managed to get to Europe. I think our priority should be high risk groups, like the Yazidi and Christians, people who have been victims of sexual violence, people who have been involved in things like 'Raqqa is being silently slaughtered' or other types of resistance putting themselves and their families at high risk.

I think simply focusing on those who have managed to get here means that we are not helping the most needy and deserving.

Also I think the current focus on Syrians is ignoring the fact that as far as Germany goes, although Syrians are the largest group, they are only about 1/5 of the total number of asylum seekers, with a great many others coming from relatively safe places like Eastern Europe via the same routes.

www.asylumineurope.org/news/20-08-2015/germany-218000-asylum-applications-received-800000-expected

Thanks for your answer, I agree largely with you say, although, I do think and I will always think that we have a moral duty to deal with those refugees that arrive on our doorstep - however they get here.

The fullfact website is an interesting one - I'm very often wary of websites named like that - moreso if they have 'truth' in their title - because it often means exactly the opposite. But that one seems to have some pretty reasonable stuff on there about immigration, about how the UK is not the soft touch it is made out to be.

It also does say that the claim that the UK has 610,000 empty properties is in fact true. Interesting.

Full facts presents itself sad unbiased, but you are right that (as with most organisations of that type) it is not a completely true claim.

However it does source it's claims, and in this case they are sourced back to Hansard and Home Office figures, so pretty damn reliable sources.

Thanks for making the thread far more reasonable than 'Muslims don't integrate and will impose their beliefs on us' Kanye. I will stand corrected (possibly) on the number of Syrians taken by UK already.

I believe the Government's own figures, on the £Aid, the number of those in need of aid,and the number of displaced/refugees in Syria are correct though.

I agree those government figures are probably right. But look at it another way:

According to those figures we have spent/allocated £66 per displaced person in Syria since 2012. For Lebanon that figure is £119 and Turkey just £13.65.

Given that we can probably expect to spend that amount on an asylum seeker in the UK within hours of them arriving I don't believe that helping those who have turned up and 'jumped the queue' is either the fairest, most efficient or most beneficial way of allocating resources.

Personally I would prefer to see a large jump in money spent on refugees in the countries around Syria, targeted asylum in the UK for those identified as being in the greatest danger. And then tell the rest of the EU that is how we are helping rather than going with the flinging open the doors and welcoming all comers attitude they are taking.

I think the response of the continental EU is very much an emotional one which ignores the fact the cost of supporting one family who make it to the EU could be better spent supporting 50 families in Turkey or Syria itself.

Or that getting here is often a sign of being the least in need.

Tsk. I have been married more than twenty years to a woman authorises classed as a refugee and resettled in the west. However a possible definition of a migrant: “A person who makes a conscious choice to leave their country to seek a better life elsewhere.” is a definition that fits exactly the circumstances that caused her family to seek asylum in the west in the first place. So people can bang on about migrant Vs refugee and certainly if you have bombs raining down on your head the difference is clear cut. But other times its clear as mud.

Kanye it is so refreshing to see the facts presented properly and politely and I find myself in agreement to everything you have written.

Money will leave UK coffers to be spent on alleviating torment felt by migrant refugees. I believe that it should be spent beyond the East and South of the EU borders. Not sure how many will want to live in the UK, but I wish to see no more an an Australian model adopted. How many from the Middle East would embrace homosexuality, integration, equal rights for all and recognising that women are the equals of men. I do not live in London, and live very much outside of it so I do not adopt a metropolitan liberalist attitude. My concern is that a majority of the migrant refugees are Muslims who will not integrate in to society. They already do not.

I think simply focusing on those who have managed to get here means that we are not helping the most needy and deserving.

It's a good point Kanye.

BBC news, reporting from Hungary last night, said that people of various nationalities are tagging along with the Syrian majority. One chap they asked on camera said he was Pakistani.

Yes, they are a mixed bag.
I am not against foreign aid but we need to ensure it does not end up in the coffers of corrupt regimes and warlords abroad or large salaries of some aid workers.

To be honest supporting them in Syria doesn't really look very practical give the climate change problem, bombed out cities and the Assad regime.

Supporting them in syria is exactly why the media is suddenly so interested. Its going to be another try at getting a mandate to bomb assad/isis/everyone on the grounds of 'helping'

Yes, I did fear that. The unintended consequences of interfering with regimes always comes back to haunt us in later decades. Such are the perils of the modern nation state.

do not live in London, and live very much outside of it so I do not adopt a metropolitan liberalist attitude. My concern is that a majority of the migrant refugees are Muslims who will not integrate in to society. They already do not.

So you admit that you don't really have much actual experience of Muslim people and therefore have a prejudiced attitude and this makes you think that they 'won't integrate'.
Given that by your own admission you live in an area with a low Muslim population what are you basing this on?

And thank you all the previous posters for getting away from 'oh those nasty Muslims are going to come over here and force me to eat halal meat and spit at me in the street'.

The attitude of some people on here is appalling, making fun of a blind couple being made to walk home and people being spat at in the street. Seems to me the only sympathy and consideration is given to people of the muslim faith, anyone else can go hang, their treatment is just something to be mocked at. Ask yourself what would happen if it was the other way round, of course there would be uproar, maybe its the unfairness that turns people against others.

Perhaps, if this happened to you you would shrug it off and not be upset, but apparently these things don't happen in your world so its impossible to imagine it happening at all.

Oh FFS shabby it's your racist attitude that's appalling more than anything. As numerous posters have said (and you've ignored), they've been harassed by plenty of white British men but has it turned them against white people and made them generalise? No. Yet a few Muslims say something to you and suddenly everyone who follows the faith is like that? You gave an example of a Muslim taxi driver refusing to carry a guide dog, I gave an example of a white taxi driver who did the same. Does that mean all white drivers are anti dog too?

A friend of mine who wears a headscarf (and was born here I might add) was spat at in the street recently and called a "f**king Muzzie" by some young lads a few weeks ago. It left her quite shaken up but she knows that not all whites are like that. Another friend (who isn't even Muslim but is of Indian descent) was peacefully reading her Hello magazine on a train soon after 9/11 when an elderly chap came up to her, pulled the magazine down and said "why don't you people just bloody go home." She pointed out that she was on her way home - to Orpington! But again, she realised that the actions of a few do not equate with the many.

The attitude of some people on here is appalling, making fun of a blind couple being made to walk home and people being spat at in the street

Citation needed please. Not the Daily Mail.

I think she's referring to our facetious comments here regarding dogs not being allowed in taxis Pipbin. Because that's exactly the same as laughing at blind people...

No one was mocking blind people, they were mocking the idea that because of one story in the daily mail about a Muslim taxi driver refusing guide dogs that that should mean we shouldn't help out (or at least be wary of helping) in the refugee crisis.

Personally I think that attitude is appalling, but there you go, I don't want to derail the thread again with trying to argue with such stupid irrelevant claptrap.

And honestly if you really think that anyone on here was mocking blind people you really need to work on your comprehension.

Lemon agreed. Let's do this quickly. If any taxi driver refuses to allow an assistance dog in his taxi then he or she should lose his taxi driver licencey thing. Whatever religion or race he or she is.

It's such a non-issue it really is.

I want a citation of the blind people being made to walk home.
And yes, no one was laughing at that story.

I've looked on line and have found a few cases. I have also found that some mosques now allow guide dogs. www.theguardian.com/society/2008/sep/25/disability.islam