migrants - AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

[lovelyconverse123]

My understanding of the migrant crisis is that the majority of the migrants are coming from countries which do not, in any way, share or support Western beliefs/values/way of life. They are now flooding into Western Europe in the hundreds of thousands. Nobody knows who they are or their background in their home country. AIBU to wonder what will be the result of this ?

They are fleeing war/violence etc. AIBU to wonder why, when they reach Hungary, which is a 'safe' country, (although economically depressed), is it not good enough and they are determined to reach Germany, UK, Austria etc ?

AIBU to wonder why the majority of these migrants feel it is acceptable to stampede through European law immigration procedures to reach their chosen country rather than wait and be correctly processed in the 'safe country they have landed in ? Surely if a person has landed in a 'safe' country, after witnessing goodness knows what in their home country, they should respect and adhere to the policies and procedures of that country ?

AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

I would like to hear your calm and measured thoughts please................

I am not Sikh but I have many Sikh friends though so that is how I know

LilMiss I am asking Europa who made a very grand statement of his/her considerable first hand experience to back up this statement. When he/she replies then I, and other posters no doubt, will comment on that response.

You gave an example relating to sexism being rife amongst Muslims, but your other Muslim friend wasn't sexist was he? All people are trying to point out is that although you had experience of some sexist Muslims NOT ALL Muslims can or should be tarred with that brush and whether they are sexist or not is no reason to stop them from entering this country as a place of safety.

So what is your religion that it doesn't allow you to eat meat blessed by other faiths?

Migrant or refugee, they are people

Yes, absolutely - and like people everywhere they'll have a variety of experiences/needs. In this particular case some will be desperate victims of the most awful oppression, some will be chancers with a convincing story to tell with which they hope to jump the queue, and some may even be terrorists hoping to slip in among all the chaos

It seems to me essential to focus whatever help we're able to give on those in most need, which is why some kinds of checks are needed; hopefully the idea of taking refugees from camps around Syria will also target those in greatest danger

In the meantime those who (perfectly reasonably) just want a better life elsewhere will have to wait and go through the proper channels as everyone else has to do, Brits included. Admittedly there are some who this won't suit - they might even go on destroying their fingerprints, etc, but that can't be helped; wanting isn't the same as getting

How it might all work out based on a lived example:

The community of economic migrants I grew up in in the UK in the 70s & 80s clustered together and engaged in esoteric cultural practices until we all got confident enough to branch out.

You didn't notice much, because we were white. We built roads, nursed you, taught your children. Oh, and then, having achieved the migrant equivalent of becoming 'carbon neutral' - contributing at least as much as we cost - the whole family returned to the country of origin.

As for the esoteric cultural practices, we made a version just for you (Riverdance).

I grew up keenly aware of being alien and suspect. I haven't consciously thought about being a migrant child in 20 years, though I've made a living from an ability to be inside and outside ideas at the same time ...

Now, when I do I reflect on it, I see it in Salman Rushdie's terms:

'The word 'translation' comes, etymologically, from the Latin for 'bearing across'. Having been borne across the world, we are translated men. It is normally supposed that something always gets lost in translation; I cling, obstinately to the notion that something can also be gained.'

I never tarred all Muslims I said 5 Muslims were being sexist - tell me where I said all Muslims are sexist then? Nor did I ever say no Muslims should come this country either. Show me where I said those things first before calling me a racist.

Re not stopping in the first "safe" country they come to...I wouldn't discount the effects of sheer terror and panic- there will be a perfectly understandable natural impulse to keep moving, get as far away as possible.

Also the fact that others are piling in behind them. If they just stop in the first safe country they get to, that country will soon be overrun. Wouldn't take a genius to work that one out, same way as you move further into the interior of a bus or train if other people are getting on behind you.

Then once immediate danger and the reactions to it are gotten beyond, then considerations like "Can I work?" "Do I speak the language? "Do I have any friends/relatives there?" "Have I ever visited?" kick in.

It's all very well trying it out sitting at home in safety having "calm thoughts" but people act and react differently under extreme circumstances, in fear and under pressure and stress. Much more of a "fight or flight" type situation than a "calm thoughts" one.

I hate the 'stop at the first safe country you reach' argument. Who's to say it will stay safe, particularly if it's close? Would any of you really stop in Turkey, which is on a high terror alert from ISIS itself at the moment, or would you try to get as far away as humanly possible to keep your children safe?

Still waiting for an answer to the faith that doesn't allow you to eat meat blessed by another faith. We know you aren't a Sikh

I can only assume that you never eat a meat curry from an Indian restaurant as most of those tend to be halal.

Lil - you did accuse Muslims of trampling over your religious beliefs. Some of us are curious as to what these beliefs are, that preclude eating meat blessed by other religions?

This thread is depressing. I'm taking note of all the bigots on this thread...they're all going on my black list. Shameless cunts.

I'm trying to focus on the fact that the people with bigoted views are the minority on this thread.
I'm still trying to decide if it's better to stay and try to make them see sense, or whether my energy could be better spent on other things.

They won't see sense until it happens to them.

jorah you mentioned Turkey's worries about terrorism, but for that matter the UK is also on high alert, as is Germany and no doubt several other so called "safe" countries. Sorry, but there comes a point where that particular argument runs out of steam and it begins to look like excuse-making on the migrants' part

Ryan's right that panic, desperation and all the rest play a part in this too, but there's going to be a difference in the "panic levels" (for want of a better phrase) among those who've genuinely been persecuted and those who'd simply rather live elsewhere. As I've said, the key seems to be to identify which is which

Jewish and Sikhism - get educated people its not hard to read up on other religions -acting all baffled like its absurd thing that there could be religions out there that say their followers should not eat meat blessed by other religions.

I didn't accuse Muslims - where did I say Muslims stop fucking making shit up that I said when I didn't. I said meat blessed by other religions - that doesn't say Muslims does it because if you weren't so ignorant you would know that there is more than religion that blesses meat.

TELL ME WHERE THE FUCK I ACCUSED MUSLIMS TRAMPLING OVER MY RELIGIOUS BELIEFS - YOU GOING TO APOLOGISE TO ME ACCUSING ME OF SAYING SOMETHING I DIDN'T? WELL...I'M WAITING............

No I have never eaten meat from an Indian restaurant.

Puzzled the UK and Germany and other countries are further away, geographically. In the mind of a rational, straight-thinking 'armchair migrant', sitting in their house with their children sleeping safe in their beds, it's easy to think "Well, geography doesn't matter", but I am almost certain that, in their shoes, if I was fleeing a war that had killed family members and tortured friends, I wouldn't just get to Turkey and think "Ah, I'll be safe here". I'd keep going and going until I couldn't get any further.

acting all baffled like its absurd thing that there could be religions out there that say their followers should not eat meat blessed by other religions.

I'm not all baffled (quite frankly I think all religions are utter bollocks and it would worry me as much as someone saying abracadabra over a carrot). I don't want to know which ones preclude it, I want to know which one you are. By a process of deduction I assume Jewish, in which case I am shocked by your attitude to refugees.

I said meat blessed by other religions - that doesn't say Muslims does it because if you weren't so ignorant you would know that there is more than religion that blesses meat.

You said halal meat, not kosher. So you as good as said Muslim, didn't you.

It's an easy question, Lil - you only have to either answer with which religion you are, or admit that you are talking bollocks.

No, I'm not going to apologise, because - unless my screen is playing tricks on me - you quite clearly used the term "trampling over my religious beliefs" when you said this:

My religious belief means I do not eat meat that is blessed by other religions yet when it was revealed supermarkets have been selling blessed meat without informing customers for years on end, trampling over my religious beliefs for god knows how long I didn't see anyone caring that people like myself had our beliefs tramped all over.

So which is it? Are you Sikh or Jewish? Because in either case, I am surprised - given the recent histories of persecution both these faiths have endured - that you have so little empathy for Syrian refugees.

"I'm taking note of all the bigots on this thread...they're all going on my black list. Shameless cunts."

Really? Doesn't that make you just as bad as the worst bigots?

Detest all the moral oneupmanship on MN at the moment.

No I said BLESSED MEAT I didn't say HALAL go fucking check my post. Come back and apologise then I'll be waiting

LilMiss I have re-read your comment posted at 1452, you headed it "here is my real life example of Muslim Sexism", the inference being that sexism is rife amongst Muslims especially as it was 5 to 1 in favour of Muslims being sexist.

I am sure, if asked, the posters on this thread could come up with innumerable examples of sexism by white, male, British born, Christians and non Christians, sexism is not something inherent only in Islam,

Amongst the many things you have frequently stated on this thread are the following:
You do not agree with the Government spending an extra 100m on the refugees, it should be spent elsewhere.
What about all the people here who need housing.
You have criticised people who want to offer homes and shelter to refugees asking why they don'r do it for homeless people already here, (even though people here are not facing civil war or IS).
I have experience of Muslim Sexism

Is it not safe to gauge from what you have written that you think it is unfair to spend money on refugees, the refugees won't integrate and you'd really rather they didn't come at all?

Oh look someone copied my post for me...........so tell me Pipbin where did I say Halal meat come on tell me?

Refugees. Not migrants. Calling them migrants makes it sound like it's a personal choice to move, not an act of necessity to escape danger.

I'm sure if I was fleeing a war torn country and all that it entails, I'd be acting irrationally too when a person told me I couldn't get to a country that I clearly had a visa for. I'd be throwing my child on a train too so she could be with relatives in said country so that she didn't have to continue sleeping on the ground wondering where the next meal was coming from.

A group of desperate people are being squeezed and you're wondering why they aren't just patiently waiting on paperwork which could take months while they live in horrid conditions?