migrants - AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

[lovelyconverse123]

My understanding of the migrant crisis is that the majority of the migrants are coming from countries which do not, in any way, share or support Western beliefs/values/way of life. They are now flooding into Western Europe in the hundreds of thousands. Nobody knows who they are or their background in their home country. AIBU to wonder what will be the result of this ?

They are fleeing war/violence etc. AIBU to wonder why, when they reach Hungary, which is a 'safe' country, (although economically depressed), is it not good enough and they are determined to reach Germany, UK, Austria etc ?

AIBU to wonder why the majority of these migrants feel it is acceptable to stampede through European law immigration procedures to reach their chosen country rather than wait and be correctly processed in the 'safe country they have landed in ? Surely if a person has landed in a 'safe' country, after witnessing goodness knows what in their home country, they should respect and adhere to the policies and procedures of that country ?

AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

I would like to hear your calm and measured thoughts please................

Janet - look at those groups that tend to have families with high birth rates and their wages - the ONS do a good job of listing it all. The economic benefit line doesn't stack up with average birth rates of 3-4 which is the case with many groups from Asia and Africa. Again the ONS register all this and on their site.

The majority are claiming tax credits far in excess of taxes paid. It's not an economic benefit. The ONS have also researched subsequent generations to see if they are net contributors. The answer is no for most non-EU groups. There are exceptions such as the Chinese.

Sorry, Pipbin, I referred to myself as an Economic Migrant, but what I think your sweeping statement shows is that too many people are prepared to make such sweeping statements regarding racism, bigotry etc. just as a means to heighten the topic and try to draw sympathy to their point of view.

You make a very good point.

I shall retract my statement and change it to 'many Brits living abroad refer to themselves as ex pats'.

I also stand by my opinion, from considerable first hand experience, that the cultural identity and ideology of Muslims of any type will not easily integrate into UK society as it exists today.

I also reiterate that individually the vast majority of Muslims I have met (which is a lot) are a kind and generous people, problems arise when you get a large proportion of like minded individuals together who have differing views to the established order where they live, then collectively mob rule starts to take over and that is when there will be flash points and conflict. This is a concern, there is evidence of this type of behavior throughout the world, it's not just linked to one nation, race or religion.

A French bloke was really rude to me at work once - he said "This is the problem with you English people...." and went on about how the English had zero business sense.

So the French are out too, I'm afraid. I'm going to judge them all on that one interaction.

But hoards of non migrants aren't net contributors.

You've got to be earning something like £35 k and not to be receiving any benefits including CB. So the rest of us are hardly a shining example are we.

Moreshabby so a group of youths from a different nationality to you, and possibly a different religion, called you a white whore and spat at you so ALL people from that nationality and religion share the views of those youths?

I have no time for people moving to Spain and not respecting the locals but you cannot compare the two. Spain has a contributory based welfare system - you have to pay in to get something out. If those lazy Brits havn't paid then they aren't getting much health treatment except emergency care. They will have to pay. Same with many other benefits.

Plus, they are taking most of their welath over there so a net contributor.

Many coming to the UK from do not have to contribute before eligibility to claim public support (rare in EU - most have contributory systems) and are not bringing money but often send a percentage back to home countries.

Yet some continue to persist in comparing the two groups. Oh, and the Spanish have spent billions in recent years on huge amounts of housing and transport infrastructure. The UK hasn't for three decades. Far less ability to cope with increases.

LilyTucker - of course. So the solution is to fix that not increase it substantially, which further worsens the UK's already very poor finances

Thank you Pipbin, all we need is a reasoned debate that fairly takes into account all views.

I also stand by my opinion, from considerable first hand experience, that the cultural identity and ideology of Muslims of any type will not easily integrate into UK society as it exists today.

And I stand by my opinion, from considerable first hand experience, that you are completely and utterly wrong! The Muslims in my community are integrated.

Fucking hell, there are some absolutely cuntish comments on here.

Migrant or refugee, they are people.

Jesus Christ!

And you are right Europa. Sweeping generalisations are not at all good no matter what side of the debate they come from.

I have no time for people moving to Spain and not respecting the locals but you cannot compare the two.

I wasn't comparing the two. I was talking about the way this one person complained bitterly about the amount of people moving into his part of London and making no effort to integrate and then moved to Spain, making no effort to integrate.

Perhaps you should take into account the second part of my post rather than selectively misquoting which is not a very elegant way of making a point, perhaps you work for the DM?

My point is very clear, individually and in small numbers all will be well, reach a critical mass of people with similar views and ideology and you are on a countdown to confrontation.

Frankly I'd rather spend money on young refugees than on benefits for the rich. Also the maj of our welfare budget is spent on the elderly so a few thousand young refugees is nothing. Pretty sure we could afford it with some new measures.

Migrant or refugee, they are people.

Exactly. If I call someone the same race as me a racist name will that even up the score and then we can help the people who are escaping a fucking war rather than bitching about some unfounded ideas of their religion.

Londinmsi and if and when the refugees settle her and are eligible to work and make their contribution they will, much like all previous refugees have, or do the Jews, Ugandans, Vietnamese, etc., make no contribution to the country?

The example with Spain was used because of the argument about lack of integration, learning language skills, etc., not about financial contribution.

Oh and I've had that many English people be rude when they come to visit Wales on holiday, complaining about us speaking Welsh.

Clearly they can't integrate with us, so maybe we should close the borders?

My point is very clear, individually and in small numbers all will be well, reach a critical mass of people with similar views and ideology and you are on a countdown to confrontation.

What about passing a law to say that no more than 10 muslims can gather? That'll sort this all out and stop people drowning or suffocating in the back of lorries as they try to keep their family safe.

Just to be clear my previous comments was in rely to Kampeki.

Oh and I've had that many English people be rude when they come to visit Wales on holiday, complaining about us speaking Welsh.

That is shocking and I apologise on behalf of my fellow country men and woman.

Unfortunately Pipbin I'm not sure there is a palatable answer that wil even please the majority. I'm just saying that these concerns need to be properly addressed.

My point is very clear, individually and in small numbers all will be well, reach a critical mass of people with similar views and ideology and you are on a countdown to confrontation.

So what percentage of the community would have to be Muslim to reach that critical mass, Europa? There is a very significant Muslim population in my area, and I see no signs of anything reaching tipping point just yet.

Fundamentally, I disagree with you because I don't see it as "oil and water" in the way that you do. We are all just people. The British people I know are not so very different from the Muslim people I know. Our views are not so very different, actually.

I think your view is skewed because you appear to live in Saudi or somewhere similar. I find that particular culture very hard to relate to, but the Muslim country I used to live in was a world apart from that, and so are the Muslims I know.

The fact is with climate change and our meddling life on the whole planet is going to change. We're all going to have to take a hit. A few rich people sitting in their ivory tower whilst the rest of the world deals with it isn't going to work.

I haven't commented on an mn thread for many years but felt compelled to after reading through this thread.I believe that the media should take a good lump of the responsibility for peoples fear of refugees and immigration in general. We are constantly bombarded with articles that focus on the few bad apples rather than the many that want nothing more than to have a peaceful life without fear of being blown up, kidnapped, forced into slavery. Yes, some are criminals. Yes, some are extreme in their views. However, there are plenty of nasty people who are born and raised right here. Despite this, we don't tar all with the same brush. We are led to believe there's not space for the poor people that have been forced from their homes but there are entire villages empty across Europe. They may not be in the desired place of a refugee's choosing but I have been raised to believe beggars can't be choosers. I think there needs to be compromise here. Yes we should help but you can't necessarily pick and choose - just like those on council lists. If you're offered a safe place to live then be grateful. It's better than living in fear, surely? And perhaps a more understanding attitude wouldn't go amiss. These people are afraid. They have nowhere to go. The west are , at the very least, partly responsible for the war and cruelty occurring in their home countries and should therefore take some resonsibilty for helping those caught in the crossfire.

Europa you said "I also stand by my opinion, from considerable first hand experience, that the cultural identity and ideology of Muslims of any type will not easily integrate into UK society as it exists today."

What 'considerable first hand experience' do you have of Muslims of any type not easily integrating into UK society as it exists today?