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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be more than slightly disturbed by SIL not giving her DS any pain relief?

240 replies

TheHouseOnTheLane · 23/08/2015 10:56

Bit of background....SIL hasn't had her son vaccinated. Not any of the injections has he had.

He's 18 months old now and tonight we had a family dinner and he has apparently been "off colour" all day. I saw him and he was burning hot....SIL says it's his teeth coming through....which it could be of course.

He was a bit limp and unhappy, wouldn't lift his head up and looked very ill to be frank...doing that constant grizzly moan thing they do when in pain...anyway...

SIL gave him some herbal teething stuff in a syrynge and DH said "Oh bit of paracetamol...that will help him" and SIL said "No it's not...I don't give him any paracetamol. He can't have that."

Hmm

AIBU to think this is bloody awful?

I've got over the issue of the injections because that is entirely her choice and me getting worried or upset won't help that at all....MIL has tried to persuede her to get him his injections but she won't budge.

But this sort of upset me...not only because it would make him feel better but because it would bring his temp down....and 18 months is so small...

OP posts:
bumbleymummy · 23/08/2015 11:25

Driver, please read my post properly:

I said the teething gel might have helped if the pain was caused by his teeth. If the fever itself was causing discomfort (or the pain wasn't eased by the gel), then yes, the guidelines suggest paracetamol.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that she was right not to give the child paracetamol - I don't know, I didn't see the child - I was just pointing out what the current guidelines are in response to PPs suggestions that he should have been given paracetamol because he had a fever and might have a convulsion.

arethereanyleftatall · 23/08/2015 11:26

This particular situation does sound extreme, but my own experience is if seeing many many parents over medicining. Many seem to carry calpol around in their every day bag, which is ridiculous. A friend of mine gets through a bottle a month, giving a spoon for the slightest whine.
I don't think it's your business, so yabu.

EmeraldKitten · 23/08/2015 11:26

caroldecker

I haven't read the link - but ds1 had 2 febrile convulsions as a toddler. The first was when he had a fever and I'd not given calpol as it was a 'mild' one. The second, he never even developed a temperature as such and was fine in himself (but was caused by a temp spike).

The advice I was given both times by the paeds and consultants was early use of calpol if he developed a temp, even a mild one....because it can prevent the temp going too high (cause of first convulsion) and also help control or slow down a temp spike (cause of number 2).

If you have a child prone to convulsions, I don't think any parent would hesitate too long in giving calpol tbh - the first was the most terrifying thing I have ever witnessed and not something I'd like to repeat.

bettyberry · 23/08/2015 11:27

Vaccinations are not her choice. What about her sons choice ffs? Does he not get a choice about possible complications around some of those infections that will affect him for the rest of his life? I don't care if he is 18mths and cannot advocate for himself but some people are just bloody stupid!

That aside. To leave a child Obviously in discomfort and pain without pain relief is even worse.

I really could go off on a major rant. but people like this just wont be reasoned with until their child gets so sick from the infections the vaccinations are meant to prevent and ends up with a life limiting/altering disability.

OP, what was the herbal thing she gave him? many herbal remedies are not meant to be used in children. A few can be used topically but not internally because of the effects in the body are not always known or the evidence/research is limited - no one actively tests on children for example. Not to mention the risk of allergic reactions to herbal concoctions is far higher than medicines again because of lack of adequate research AND the reactions they have with other medication.

stupid stupid people Angry

Original poster
TheHouseOnTheLane · 23/08/2015 11:28

Thanks for the info everyone. To clarify a few questions....SIL has no partner, DNephews Dad isn't in the picture.

He was at home...not out and no SIL has no health issues.

OP posts:
DriverSurpriseMe · 23/08/2015 11:29

There’s no need to undress your child or sponge them down with tepid water. Research shows that neither actually helps to reduce fever

www.nhs.uk/conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/pages/treating-high-temperature-children.aspx

And that's in relation to tepid water, let alone cold.

bumbleymummy · 23/08/2015 11:29

Birds, they're not recommended any more.

Lucked · 23/08/2015 11:29

Tepid bath can be okay but cool baths are not. The peripherally of the body becomes cools and so the vessels vasoconstrict and the body sends less blood to the skin. This means the central (core) body temperature around the heart and brain can increase despite cool skin.

Original poster
TheHouseOnTheLane · 23/08/2015 11:30

Betty this is one which is widely available in the country we're in and it's for teething kids. So it is safe.

I just feel a little upset because i can't help but think less of SIL for this.

OP posts:
fabuLou · 23/08/2015 11:31

My 15 month old had a fit, it was terrifying. I always give calpol for temperatures and no I don't care what the guidelines say.

Lucked · 23/08/2015 11:31

Oh I was wrong tepid out too. Although I just gives baths on the evening like normal when unwell.

DriverSurpriseMe · 23/08/2015 11:32

Also in relation to cold baths:

It is not recommended to give your child a cool bath or tepid sponging as this brings the outer temperature down quickly, but can increase the inner temperature.

www.uhsm.nhs.uk/patients/Paediatrics%20documents/Fever%20in%20children%20younger%20than%205%20years.pdf

BertrandRussell · 23/08/2015 11:33

"
""Cold flannels and baths are not recommended.""

To bring a high temperature down? Yes they are, as opposed to just giving paracetamol."

No they aren't. Cold flannels and baths can make things worse. Tepid sponging is reccomended, not cold. And unless it is very high, there is no need to bring a temperature down- it's a sign that the body is fighting an infection. But most definitely calpol or similar to treat pain or other symptoms.

bumbleymummy · 23/08/2015 11:34

Emerald, I'm not sure how old your children are but that advice may have changed now because studies have shown that giving paracetamol does not prevent convulsions.

From the NICE guidelines:

1.6 Antipyretic interventions

1.6.1 Effects of body temperature reduction

1.6.1.1 Antipyretic agents do not prevent febrile convulsions and should not be used specifically for this purpose. [2007]

1.6.2 Physical interventions to reduce body temperature

1.6.2.1 Tepid sponging is not recommended for the treatment of fever. [2007]

1.6.2.2 Children with fever should not be underdressed or over-wrapped. [2007]

1.6.3 Drug interventions to reduce body temperature

1.6.3.1 Consider using either paracetamol or ibuprofen in children with fever who appear distressed. [new 2013]

1.6.3.2 Do not use antipyretic agents with the sole aim of reducing body temperature in children with fever. [new 2013]

1.6.3.3 When using paracetamol or ibuprofen in children with fever:

continue only as long as the child appears distressed

consider changing to the other agent if the child's distress is not alleviated

do not give both agents simultaneously

only consider alternating these agents if the distress persists or recurs before the next dose is due. [new 2013]

bumbleymummy · 23/08/2015 11:35

Bert, tepid sponging isn't recommended either anymore - see above.

DriverSurpriseMe · 23/08/2015 11:35

Cold flannels and baths can make things worse. Tepid sponging is reccomended, not cold.

Tepid sponging isn't recommended either, Bertrand! Smile

BoffinMum · 23/08/2015 11:37

Actually it is important not to overdress children with fevers. The first thing any GP will tell you to do is to dress them as lightly as is reasonable and maybe open the bedroom window as well, or use a fan if the room is really hot. They also do this in hospital. I don't know why any sensible person would think otherwise.

Sirzy · 23/08/2015 11:38

I agree with the idea that we are too quick to give calpol I know people who as soon as a temp hits 37 they give calpol. Hmm

DS had a low level fever a few days back, it self limited though and no calpol was needed. If he is ill with it or it gets very high (he has been known to get up to 41) then I will give calpol.

In the situation of the Op it does on the face of it seem wrong and the general anti giving it stance is wrong.

Mulligrubs · 23/08/2015 11:38

At that age if they seem listless and not themselves then they should be given some proper calpol or nurofen. If you can plainly see they are unwell then not giving them medicine is cruel IMO (apart from where there are allergies etc of course).

123MothergotafleA · 23/08/2015 11:38

Sounds like the child was sick and needed more than Calpol. I would have sought medical advice with a baby who is "limp".But FFS not to do anything......hope the baby is going to be ok.

BoffinMum · 23/08/2015 11:39

And I have yet to see research that tepid baths are harmful to children with fevers. Cold baths, yes, but tepid?

bettyberry · 23/08/2015 11:41

Thanks OP. I just worry when folk revert to herbal medicines. Some are indeed very safe with lots of research to back them up. Others, not so much.

Palomb · 23/08/2015 11:49

The reasoning behind not recommending cold or tepid baths or flan eking was that it can make you shiver which heats the body up more and make things worse.

Palomb · 23/08/2015 11:49

Flanneling*

EmeraldKitten · 23/08/2015 11:51

bumbley - about 5 years ago now.

Ds2 was very unwell a few months back (age 4) and ended up at the ooo Dr's because he'd had the max dose of calpol, can't take ibuprofen and his temp couldn't be controlled, which was causing violent shakes.

The Dr was VERY irritated, not with me for taking him but with the guidelines on calpol.

His words were 'no wonder his temp hasn't come down, he's not had enough. These guidelines have to be over cautious because they're aimed at the masses. Start giving him half as much again'.

Which we did, and which worked.

I am now generally reluctant to stick to the letter of 'general NHS guidelines' tbh and would rather go off the recommendation of an actual medically trained person.