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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be more than slightly disturbed by SIL not giving her DS any pain relief?

240 replies

TheHouseOnTheLane · 23/08/2015 10:56

Bit of background....SIL hasn't had her son vaccinated. Not any of the injections has he had.

He's 18 months old now and tonight we had a family dinner and he has apparently been "off colour" all day. I saw him and he was burning hot....SIL says it's his teeth coming through....which it could be of course.

He was a bit limp and unhappy, wouldn't lift his head up and looked very ill to be frank...doing that constant grizzly moan thing they do when in pain...anyway...

SIL gave him some herbal teething stuff in a syrynge and DH said "Oh bit of paracetamol...that will help him" and SIL said "No it's not...I don't give him any paracetamol. He can't have that."

Hmm

AIBU to think this is bloody awful?

I've got over the issue of the injections because that is entirely her choice and me getting worried or upset won't help that at all....MIL has tried to persuede her to get him his injections but she won't budge.

But this sort of upset me...not only because it would make him feel better but because it would bring his temp down....and 18 months is so small...

OP posts:
ShadowLine · 24/08/2015 00:29

It's implied in your post at 23:39, Lurking.

Apologies if I've misinterpreted that.

NobodyLivesHere · 24/08/2015 01:58

Yes patrick i do. my own GP. can i prove that to you without outting her on mumsnet? no. doesn't mean it isnt true. and I dont really care if you believe it or not.

Atenco · 24/08/2015 02:53

I worked in a Burmese refugee camp in Thailand... I saw the result of measles. NEVER would I risk my dcs to this. Inmho people who subscribe to this utter nonsense have obviously no idea what horror measles mumps and rubella can wreak

I had measles, mumps and rubella as did all my friends and not one of us ever suffered any horror, but then we were not refugees.

The SIL sounds very informed, much more informed than the OP.

AnotherTimeMaybe · 24/08/2015 03:48

I had measles, mumps and rubella as did all my friends and not one of us ever suffered any horror, but then we were not refugees.

I went through all of these 3 as well as a kid pretty mildly- I come from a country where funny enough back then they vaccinated against chicken pox but not mmr - but I was quite healthy

Problem is for those with weaknesses whose bodies cannot take such a disease hence it results in brain damage, deafness etc

Baconyum · 24/08/2015 03:59

Former nurse here. Advice changes regularly as new knowledge comes to light so I try to regularly update my knowledge.

I used tepid sponging on my dd who was prone to very high temperatures when very small but totally understand that we now know better. I've never been one for instantly medicating the slightest discomfort in myself or dd. I had no pain relief for 27 hour labour until a cs was ordered. But I have a high pain threshold not everyone is the same.

Medication has its place but even most medics would say unless there is an unusual medical history it shouldn't be the first port of call.

Dd had colic, we used massage techniques, and a herbal remedy which I checked was OK with gp. Generally the massage worked. We had one night where nothing was working but even medication didn't work either so unfortunately she just had to ride it out.

Teething, again I think painful for some babies not so much for others. I used frozen carrot sticks, teething rings, teething powders for dd but back teeth did seem to cause real pain so gave calpol for that. As I recall one dose occasionally was all.

Even now that she's older, depending on what the pain/discomfort is will determine what we try/what works. Eg headaches are often eye strain or dehydration so sitting for half hour with eyes closed or a long drink will often suffice. Sometimes a cool flannel will be added, only if its bad will dd even ask for pain meds.

Myself I have 3 different medical conditions which often cause pain but meds are a last resort.

Paracetamol stays in the body especially the liver for a long time. I absolutely agree it shouldn't be given at the slightest twinge. Posters and the OP are reacting as if the mother did nothing. The OP doesn't mention how baby was dressed, if it was hot where they were, how long the symptoms were present. The mother did give the baby something to hopefully relieve the pain just not a chemically produced copy of herbal remedies used for 1000's of years.

I'm old enough to have been given aspirin as a child, that certainly would have been viewed then as calpol is now, a harmless remedy to relieve fever and discomfort yet we now know this can be dangerous not just risky.

Having said all that though I do think not vaccinating is irresponsible not only for that child but for other vulnerable people who may come into contact. The diseases prevented by vaccination are far worse than most potential side effects(yes I realise there are rare very bad effects but these are very rare). I have never come across anyone with even a modicum of medical training that doesn't have their children vaccinated. I feel part of the reason some feel measles etc 'aren't that bad' have no idea how dangerous they can be in people who are not vaccinated.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/Reyes-syndrome/Pages/Introduction.aspx

www.nhs.uk/Livewell/headaches/Pages/Painkillerheadaches.aspx

And don't even get me started on codeine being available OTC!!

PennyHassett · 24/08/2015 07:41

Paracetamol is not stored in the liver, it is metabolised by it. It has a fairly short half life of 2-3 hours (assuming normal liver function) which is why it needs to be taken every 4-6 hours. A single dose would take around 5 half-lives to be eliminated from the body, so around 10-15 hours, although its therapeutic effects would be lost long before that.

TheHouseOnTheLane · 24/08/2015 07:43

Atenco what information did I give about my SIL's knowledge? None...that's what. So HOW you come up with who is more informed than who is beyond me.

OP posts:
LittleBearPad · 24/08/2015 09:02

I think you sound like you're overreacting OP. It's reasonable to presume your sil knows her child best and what she needs to do for him. Herbal remedies / teething powders can be very effective.

DD's nursery would ring asking to give calpol at the slightest increase in temp. I'd ask how she was and ask them to monitor the temp. Sometimes I'd say ok depending on his she was, sometimes not. A Doctor told us not to worry unless she had a temp over 40. However she used to run temps but be fine in herself. She wasn't susceptible to convulsions.

And it's not bloody abuse. Some of the statements on thud thread are ludicrous.

Skiptonlass · 24/08/2015 09:12

If she's antivaxx, it's unlikely you can reason with her. Antivaxxers, despite zero medical training, just know they're right.

The poster above who says they had measles, mumps etc and was just fine is missing the point spectacularly - there is a reason we have vaccines for these diseases and that's because they kill. And cause lifelong disabilities. Those Burmese refugees? They see children die of measles and a host of preventable diseases. They know the score and they'll snap your arm off to get vaccinated. They're absolutely right.

But of course, SIL is 'better informed.' Bollocks. Utter bollocks. She's leaving her child open to potentially lethal infections AND reducing herd immunity in her community. She's stupid, naive and thoughtless - what if her precious snowflake develops an illness and then passes it on to kid with immune suppression? Or one having chemo? Or someone pregnant? Or, God forbid, is deafened by measles. Because yes, that still happens, even with western medical care in healthy well nourished children. Measles is not some fucking benign little virus.

Let's take measles. I had measles as a kid and I was lucky enough to emerge unscathed. But now research is showing that if a kid gets measles it wipes their immune memory for roughly the last three years. So they end up effectively immunologically immune. The effect is so strong that deaths in children from all infectious disease causes track the incidence of measles.

Op, here is a good link written in very simple terms. www.newscientist.com/article/dn27481-measles-leaves-you-vulnerable-to-a-host-of-deadly-diseases/

Show it to your SIL. I doubt she'll listen, but hey ho. Remind her that natural isn't always better. Cyanide, botulinum toxin, arsenic and asbestos are all perfectly natural. Herbal stuff is often unregulated - you've no idea what's in it.

Vaccinate your fucking kids, people! Not to do so is endangering them and endangering the community at large. I don't care what you've read on crunchy mummy antivaxx blogs. Decades of research shows that vaccination (with a very few exemptions for very, very specific needs) is a good thing. If I ruled the world children would not be allowed into schools without full vaccination certificates.

Oh, and give calpol sparingly but use your judgement.

bumbleymummy · 24/08/2015 09:21

Skip, I think people are aware that measles can kill but you can't really compare measles in a refugee camp to someone catching measles in the UK.

Anyway, probably best to stay on topic.

LittleBear, our school asks us to sign a form to allow them to give Calpol/other treatment if needed. I haven't ticked the Calpol box. If they were feeling poorly enough to need paracetamol (we don't use Calpol anyway) I would much rather that they were home with me, not trying to struggle through the school day.

zzzzz · 24/08/2015 09:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

honkinghaddock · 24/08/2015 11:28

Those who rarely give their child calpol are lucky to have a child that is rarely in pain. Ds has been on max dose calpol and ibuprofen for a month due to an ear infection with codeine thrown in for when it is really painful. Not for the first time either.

Supermanspants · 24/08/2015 13:47

honking Really horrible..... you have my sympathies

Baconyum · 25/08/2015 18:53

"People who "had measles when they were a child and were fine", you do realise that the unlucky children who had a bad reaction were either dead or hidden in homes/institutions?" THIS ABSOLUTELY! Even in previously healthy children the consequences can be tragic.

Honking Flowers poor wee boy.

Dd rarely in pain as viewed over almost 15 years but she has had times when she is and I do use pain relief then. Just not at the slightest fever/skint knee which I have seen lots of parents where I live do.

Girlfriend36 · 25/08/2015 18:53

Similar to Honk my dd has had chronic ear infections which have perforated her ear drum several times, there have been times when she has not been able to move her head off the pillow. In these cases she had regular calpol and ibuprofen just so she could cope, to not give these meds would be cruel imo.

Op have you heard how your nephew is now?

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