not to know if "brown sugar" is offensive.

[Charis1]

I am taking some gifts from work colleagues to a friend in hospital tomorrow. We had a collection, and one person bought the gifts from us all. We have some nice toiletries and things, but are in a toiletry bag with a picture of a teddy on it and the caption "brown sugar". I thought that term sometimes used in a racist context, so am reluctant to hand this over. but not sure if I am being paranoid and overly politically correct.

Please help!

I don't see people as a colour

I'm with you on this, Reg, though still not on the gollies! Seeing people's colour more prominently than you see everything else about them is as unhelpful as doing the same with disability, age, gender, chest size, glasses, hair colour and beauty quotient. It betrays, in itself, a superficiality and propensity to judge. Someone who's over cautious about causing offence ends up behaving in prejudiced ways.

This is not to deny or minimise society's tendency to undervalue people with certain characteristics. It's true that societies do that, and it needs to be corrected as far and as pragmatically as possible.

By the way, the fact that you and your family find gollies cute/amusing is your prerogative, but doesn't imply acceptability among other people. It's probably got a lot to do with 'adopting' some uncomfortable facts about the society we live in and its attitude to people with negroid characteristics, I'm afraid ... Kind of like the way I can call myself a fat, old scrounger, but would really not be impressed by anyone else doing it!

I am thinking of starting "Old Bags Against Austerity", though - Any colour of bag welcome

Regina in answer to your question - yes I know many black people who are deeply offended by these hideous, so-called toys - my husband, my daughter, BILs, SiL, niece, best friend ... Need I go on? I'm in no way suggesting that you are a racist but you should be aware that even though your family may not be offended many other people are. Empathy and self awareness would not go amiss.

I have no hesitation whatsoever in complaining very vociferously to any shop I see selling these vile articles and I'm appalled by the apologists on this thread.

If we're going to discuss golly dolls could we at least call them "golly dolls" and NOT "gollyw**gs"? Ta.

Glad you agree on that one garrick As for the gollies I will be honest I know the jist about them being banned/offensive etc but have never really thought about it too much.the collection did start off in a jokey way but now I have actually grown to love them there is nothing in it at all. The one on my dresser is behind a glass door and tbh he's only there as I never got round to putting him upstairs, the rest are in my wardrobe at the minute I don't display them proudly or anything like that they are just something I collect.

Not But isn't "golly" and "golly doll" just a way of making them seem more acceptable and less sinister? And why would that be?

I think perhaps collecting gollies is akin to collecting Nazi memorabilia to some folks. I love the sight of gollies but would not display them myself as I'm loathe to upset black people.

"
If we're going to discuss golly dolls could we at least call them "golly dolls" and NOT "gollyw**gs"? Ta."

Why? I call them gollywogs because that's what they are. Gollywogs. I refuse to sanitise them. GOLLYWOGS.

Equally, Seneca, isn't being duped into using the word 'w*g' as part of the discussion, doing the racist work of the dolls' supporters for them?

That's a bit of a row-back from Oh Ffs . Where does it end? I have a golliwog on display in my French dresser Regina

I haven't been duped. I am very careful with language. And yes, indeed, the original word for these dolls is now a racist slur. I rest my case.

Maybe Bertrand but I'm not convinced. If they were called "gollyn**rs" you wouldn't catch me using the term. This feels no different.

And for the avoidance of doubt, they are not REMOTELY acceptable, in name, concept, history or appearance to me.

Not If no one else has been able to convince the naysayers, your point about the name itself being offensive should be compelling. But I refuse to call them by the sanitized cutesie name because there is nothing cute or healthy about them.

By naysayers, I mean people who don't see them as racist.

How about "Racism propaganda effigies"?

I do find it interesting the issue of reappropriation, Regina has been criticised on this thread for being ok with gollies because it can still offend others, yet the n word obviously has a terrible history yet it is smack bang there in popular culture through re appropriation.

Would posters here criticise a black or mixed race person for using the n word?

Yes slithy, I would.

Don't know if it needs saying but I have no love for gollies or anything saying brown sugar and know it's has racial history and offends.

I don't see the issue with an I love chocolate mug though.

Do you have an issue with re appropriation Venezuela?

For one thing slithy, I'm not sure repurposing hate speech can work, because connotations remain.

I suppose also that it depends what you want it to 'do'. I'm struggling to think of an example where it has hastened the end of discrimination, decreased hatred or done anything other than muddy the waters and give bigots an 'out' ("I've heard black people/gay people/women use that word themselves").

We can see from this thread that ( in UK 2015! ) there are people who don't know what BME means and seem unaware that the term 'coloured' is not polite. Or say that they don't. Staggering but apparently true.

He is on display in my dresser behind a glass door what I meant was I haven't deliberately put him there to prove a point he's just there,and if someone doesn't like him then that's their problem. The rest are all upstairs in my wardrobe but they were on a shelf in my bedroom until I decorated. Me my mum and my two brothers were talking about gollies last week actually and my mum was talking about a 6 foot gollie she used to have, my brother said "yeah his name was dad" that's our mentality I'm afraid and I do know that sounds really immature but hey ho. Doesn't mean I condone racism or I would make jokes like this outside of my family/friends.

this thread has made me chuckle

being in a mixed race relationship with someone from a black carribean background me and DP often grin at those who try not to offend get all tounge tied and basically fuck it up.

In all honesty I can say that very few mixed race or those from afro carribean or African heritage find golliwog dolls offensive. I mean yea sure if you aggressively call them a wog their going to take offence but if someone called you a cunt or something to that effect to your face, you'd take offence too.

DP and his brother also use the word nigger to one another, try being the only white person in a room when that words flying about. First time I heard it my knickers twisted and I didnt know what to say, now I just ignore it.

Funny old world we live in

If you are South African, "coloured" is a completely acceptable term for a person of mixed race. But I can't imagine how there can be many people who in this day and age don't realise that it is not acceptable in any other context.

Most of the black people I know are not sympathetic to re-appropriation of racist symbols and slurs (again, I am in the US South and that is relevant), but having said that, I think there is a big difference between black people using the N-word and white people using it, so I would extend that to these dolls.

Agree with others, calling them golly dolls sounds like an attempt to make them acceptable.

regina your sons different colouring makes perfect sense to me as its similar to dd/me. And dds father. And yy on the ridiculous nature of 'paler'.