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AIBU?

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Original poster

not to know if "brown sugar" is offensive.

342 replies

Charis1 · 20/08/2015 23:11

I am taking some gifts from work colleagues to a friend in hospital tomorrow. We had a collection, and one person bought the gifts from us all. We have some nice toiletries and things, but are in a toiletry bag with a picture of a teddy on it and the caption "brown sugar". I thought that term sometimes used in a racist context, so am reluctant to hand this over. but not sure if I am being paranoid and overly politically correct.

Please help!

OP posts:
SenecaFalls · 22/08/2015 01:56

I grew up, and still live in, the American South. I am also fairly old and came to political awareness during the Civil Rights Movement. I teach diversity and cultural competence (which includes ageism and sexism, btw) as part of a multi-racial and multi-ethnic team. So yes, I actually do know black people who are offended by golliwogs.

ALassUnparalleled · 22/08/2015 02:15

Seneca I'm assuming you're familiar with The Carolina Chocolate Drops (and Dawn yes the name did give me pause the first time I heard it) and the wonderful Riannon Giddens? This is an interview with her where she addresses reappraisal/re-appropriation and keeping the things of value.

vknid.com/2014/08/20/rhiannon-giddens-talks-racism-history-and-now/

For any one not familiar with them they are fabulous. This video is just wonderful - a black American women performing traditional gaelic mouth music.

Garrick · 22/08/2015 02:15

Out of interest have you ever met a black person that has told you they are offended by golliwogs?

Yes, the friend who explained their history to me.
And I haven't met this guy, but he tells a nice story well.

ALassUnparalleled · 22/08/2015 02:31

As some one ,who despite being in her 50s, is still a sucker for cute fluffy animal soft toys, one of the things that puzzles me is that even if you were oblivious or uncaring about the history of gollies why would you want something so ugly?

Any half decent toy shop will have rows of much nicer toys. I'm not trying to be flippant, but seriously even if the racism doesn't bother you they are just so ugly.

SenecaFalls · 22/08/2015 02:55

Lass I am very interested in the intersections between Scottish Gaelic culture and African American culture, especially music, which have received increased attention of late.

This is especially interesting.

www.scotsman.com/what-s-on/music/black-music-from-scotland-it-could-be-the-gospel-truth-1-1293195

Garrick · 22/08/2015 03:06

Wow, that's fascinating Seneca! Thanks!

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 22/08/2015 03:08

Setting aside the racist discussion just for a second, I would definitely change the bag just in case. If she's sick in hospital then she's going to be feeling pretty shit anyway and probably very vulnerable, so she might be more sensitive than usual.

My mum had a colostomy done years ago, emergency procedure that saved her life after peritonitis nearly killed her - my Dad, not even thinking anything about it, bought her a Winnie the Pooh teddy bear to cheer her up. She nearly threw it at his head and burst into tears. Hadn't even crossed his mind that the word "poo" was in the name, and she was massively sensitive to the issue of poo now she had a colostomy. Any other time she might have been able to laugh it off, but not while she was in hospital. :(

BertrandRussell · 22/08/2015 07:24

"I don't see people as black white Asian etc"

Ah, the old "I don't see colour, me" line.

I have never met anyone who used that line who wasn't a racist.

bumbleymummy · 22/08/2015 07:28

Just back:

DawnDonna: Re "I love chocolate" - "Again, bumbley it's context, the way it's used and sometimes it's used offensively. "

Yes, but the context in this case is the wording on a mug. I disagree that a mug saying "I love chocolate" is inappropriate for an office environment. I'm glad to see I"m not the only one who thinks this. Yes, I can see how "I love chocolate" can be offensive if someone is pointedly saying it to someone but I don't think a mug is the same at all.

Itsmine · 22/08/2015 09:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Thelushinthepub · 22/08/2015 09:10

Doesn't everyone think golliwogs are offensive? Everyone I know does except racist in laws

DoreenLethal · 22/08/2015 09:20

Doesn't everyone think golliwogs are offensive? Everyone I know does except racist in laws

They DO know it is offensive...but because they are racist they are happy with it being offensive.

Itsmine · 22/08/2015 09:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lurkedforever1 · 22/08/2015 10:02

Exactly itsmine. Even using something without the historical aspects like jo brand taking the piss out of her weight, it doesn't mean it makes it ok for everyone to go round taking the piss out of anyone overweight. Even little kids get that, they'll be horrid to their siblings/ friends but God help the random other that tries it.

ReginaBlitz · 22/08/2015 10:48

Bert..I don't see people as a colour because I am a colour, so are my children which is why I don't as I don't want them thinking anyone is different. How the actual fuck that makes me a racist baffles me.

Original poster
Charis1 · 22/08/2015 11:06

to go back to me original question... I bought a new bag and threw away the other one, it was only the bag, the toiletries inside had been bought separately, and I just moved them into a smart new bag.

My friend was very happy with the gifts, and the original buyer was quite upset to hear about the link with black prostitutes, and was grateful to me for changing it.

so thank you all for your contributions.

OP posts:
hebihebi · 22/08/2015 11:23

That's good. I think you did the right thing.

Lurkedforever1 · 22/08/2015 11:31

I don't see people as a colour or religion etc either, and unless it's actually relevant don't attach any importance whatsoever to it. But of course I notice it same as I notice different hair colour, height, clothing etc. And for most daily purposes it's about as important to me.

I do kind of see your point regina, in that going overboard pc is offensive in itself sometimes, but mostly it's because people are trying not to offend. Dd isn't actually mixed race to look at me or her father, but has inherited a strange combination of genes from past generations so doesn't look Caucasian. Although it's not Afro Caribbean mixed, it's different. Describing her as the dark one if with a blonde friend is no more offensive as distinguishing the other as the blonde one, but I appreciate most people don't because they aren't sure, rather than through being so pc they're trying to cover up their inner 'othering'. It'll be the blonde haired one and the black haired one, the blonde one and the tall one, or the blonde one and the one in a red top etc. Funnily enough though, if dd is with someone darker ( whatever the origin) its occasionally 'the paler one' and that does piss me off because it's like being paler is ok but darker isn't. It is usually well intended though, and tbh it's only 'where is she from' or in early days people thinking I should be disappointed she inherited the dark genes not the fair ones that have offended me on her behalf.

QOD · 22/08/2015 11:52

BME? I see others have asked but what? Is this a new.phrase?
Is this different then to mixed race and black?
argh I never want to offend but christ on a bike it's a.minefield !

VashtaNerada · 22/08/2015 12:30

BME is black and minority ethnic, although it's actually a bit old now! At work I'd say BAME which includes Asian (I think!). It is hard to keep up when words change but the important thing is to keep informed and to respect whatever words people ask you to use.

ReginaBlitz · 22/08/2015 21:26

Itsmine? How is that convenient? Why should I mention the colour of my skin when I first mention the golliwogs? Oh yes because it doesn't matter it does matter though when I being called racist. My black cousins have been known to send pics of golliwogs as a joke over facebook which we all find amusing. Me and most of my family mixed and black friends are the very people you are assuming would be offended by such things as gollies and brown sugar bears and we are clearly not. Yes maybe there are black people that are offended, but I've never met one.

ReginaBlitz · 22/08/2015 21:36

Lurked, that really is ridiculous the paler one! Your dd is lucky most people would love a natural darker skin tone my ds is white blond and pale yet my other son has darker skin and dark curly hair work that one out.

samsam123 · 22/08/2015 21:45

Everything seems to be offensive to someone these days

CherryPicking · 22/08/2015 21:57

I've always half sung along to Brown Sugar, assuming it was a very clumsy tribute to an ex girlfriend of Jagger or someone, but I could never make out about 70% of the lyrics. Bloody hell - how wrong can you get? Even in 1968 or whenever that would have been inappropriate. Then there's the added insult of cultural appropriation. Can we start a campaign to get 6 music to stop playing this please? Bet even Lauren Laverne doesn't know all the words... And the stones keep taking in the racist royalties...

SenecaFalls · 22/08/2015 22:15

I would say especially in 1968: during especially heightened awareness of the Civil Rights Movement and the year Dr. King was murdered.