not to know if "brown sugar" is offensive.

[Charis1]

I am taking some gifts from work colleagues to a friend in hospital tomorrow. We had a collection, and one person bought the gifts from us all. We have some nice toiletries and things, but are in a toiletry bag with a picture of a teddy on it and the caption "brown sugar". I thought that term sometimes used in a racist context, so am reluctant to hand this over. but not sure if I am being paranoid and overly politically correct.

Please help!

Thanks SenecaFalls

The BC controversy was essentially a non-controversy in the US. People understood that he was confused about the usage. It's a distinction that is important in the US, but people do understand that it can be confusing and are certainly willing to forgive a person with good intentions who mis-speaks in a confused moment.

Dawn I still think you are making a rather large and rather unpleasant assumption about all boys.

The cause of any giggling may well be the "muff" part of the word.

Happy to, WMittens and Itsmine. Part of my work life involves facilitating diversity and cultural competence training in the workplace, and I enjoy being part of these discussions on MN. I always learn something too. I am pondering the "chocolate" question and will discuss it with some of my colleagues on Monday.

seneca sorry if it came across as though I was implying the Deep South was the only place racism ever existed, or that golliwogs stem from there, that wasn't my intention. I meant more in terms of the casual ignorance that was condoning them, it was reminiscent of stuff like to kill a mockingbird, gone with the wind etc.

Still not getting the chocolate mug reference. It wouldn't cross my mind to think any reference to chocolate in that context was a dig at dd. As a preteen its not been used as a lewd racist term either. Although in dawns eg it obviously was being. However on the chocolate muffin hilarity, I'd guess it was the word 'muff'. Dd and peers can crack up at words like blue ball, one ball, done it, hump etc when used in a none sexual context. So I can see why teen lads might find muff(in) snigger worthy.

No, I understood what you meant Lurked and it was a very good point. But I think a lot of people don't know that golliwogs are a mostly British thing and I just wanted to point that out.

Thinking about it, owning a gollywog and not thinking there's problem with it is not necessarily racist. It could just be ignorance and stupidity. But keeping said gollywog and defending the keeping of it once the racism has been explained and once it had been made clear that the overwhelming majority of black people find gollywogs offensive- now that's racist.

A Lass if you read my post that's what I said, the bit about not comprehending the wider implications.

Just to clarify regarding the references to mine and whoever else golliwog collections- I am mixed race my dad is black. I have a gorgeous collection of golliwogs, I am not offended my family are not offended, most find my gollies funny. People are so Ott it's unreal. Where does it end really? Black comedians take the piss out of themselves all the time their whole sets are based on taking the piss out of themselves we find it hilarious not offensive. Back to the point of a brown sugar teddy I wouldn't give two shits receiving it, I'd be more offended not being given it because people think I'd be bloody offended ridiculous.

Are we looking for offence here? You saw something written on a toiletry bag and decided to check on MN if it was offensive.

You can bet your life someone on here will say yes.

And many will say no.

In my day (in the olden days) if you didn't mean to cause offence that would be enough. Now someone can claim offence at anything and you will be made to look and feel bad and be forced to apologise for some random word you (and most of the population didn't know was offensive.)

It's a strange phrase to see written on a toiletry bag I'll give you that. But I thought it related to heroin. (I'd be pleased my colleagues thought kindly enough to think of getting me a gift though.)

I hope you sort it out. Don't overthink everything, if she's a bit overweight she might be offended at chocolates. Maybe if you get toiletries she'll think you all think she smells.

It's nice you thought of her. That should be enough.

My golly lives in a box in the attic. He is very old (as am I) I cannot bring myself to throw him away because I loved him long ago. I also have a black china baby doll also 60+ years old. Surely keeping my old toys doesn't make me racist. My son's godparents are black (I know that isn't really relevant).

No, Pranma, that doesn't make you racist :) Bragging about your extensive collection of gollies is. So is going on to pre-empt critics with an illogical 'pc gorn mad' defence, which basically says you don't give a shit if anyone's offended because they're wrong and your opinion matters more.

Garrick. It's probably because I don't give a shit. I don't see people as black white Asian etc I see them as either a nice person or a prick. Im not racist like I said my dad was fresh off the boat when he was 8. (He would say that himself). I love my golliwogs and to me it is what a collect a piece of history they are just dolls.

For those being deliberately ignorant:

"The English-American author Florence Upton invented the golliwog in a series of picture books produced at the onset of the Jim Crow laws, which mandated racial segregation in the American South. She described the character as a horrid sight, the blackest gnome. He was clothed in the same apparel as the black-faced minstrels then prevalent in Europe and North America. He had thick lips, unruly black hair, and his hands and feet were paws " therefore describing non whites as NON HUMAN!!! It doesn't get much more bloody racist!

It is perfectly fine to have dolls that resemble black people

"And to me, they are not a racist caricature because they don't even look like a person!" THATS THE PROBLEM!

What if I walked past one without saying anything in a toy shop? Would that make me a racist? Does that make me a racist? YES and ignorant, lacking a conscience and empathy too

Pranma it doesn't make you racist but you could consider donating to a museum? To educate?

Deliberately ignorant?

I don't understand people who say "I'm X and I don't find it offensive." Great for you? Have some empathy and solidarity for those that do?

Colourblindness ("I don't see colour!!") and pretending racism isn't a real, pervasive thing that colours (ha) a lot of things in society with both hidden and overt sinister and harmful context isn't helpful. We HAVE to stop pretending racism doesn't exist and isn't embedded in the things we like and enjoy. OK, you have fond memories of your golliwogs. You're mixed race and you love your golliwogs. That doesn't erase their history and context?

Maybe you're a perfectly lovely, open minded person, but trying to deny the dangerous contexts behind certain things because you like it means that you care more about your feelings than totally ending racism. On that same vein, acting like it's a bigger crime and bigger paint to be CALLED racist than to actually live through racism shows you care more about your hurt feelings than ending racism and listening to others.

Brown Sugar is offensive to me...both as a term in the way its used to mean "black women give good sex" & in line with the Stones song, which a lot of black women DO know.

Its good to see some posters are perfectly aware of that

As for the golliwog thing - I have both black and white friends and not ONCE have I come across anyone with a golliwog collection. Never heard it mentioned in reality by anybody either. But anytime a thread on MN touches on race you get a few posters who claim they have these. I dont believe a word of it, sorry. & if youre enamoured with golliwogs thats just weird..as if making a stance by keeping a racist toy. A stance to who? If you did have these collections (yeah right) you probably hide that fact from people you know it would offend in real life. & you know why. Still don't believe you tho...

Good post Fauchelevent

Deliberately ignorant?

Yes I was referring to pp saying they won't educate themselves as to the history of golliwogs being racist.

"acting like it's a bigger crime and bigger paint to be CALLED racist than to actually live through racism shows you care more about your hurt feelings than ending racism and listening to others." So true I agree

Mistress sadly I can believe it. They were all over Stratford-Upon-Avon's little "quaint" shops when I last visited and I've been a guest of someone who had kindly left one grotesquely sitting in a chair. People who gloat and are deliberately ignorant about golliwogs think they're sticking it to a PC culture that oppresses them by calling them racist when actually they're just saying "I don't like having to marginally adapt to be more inclusive to people who aren't me. It makes me feel disempowered and makes me question things I don't want to. I'm going to proudly continue alienating already alienated people to take back my power."

So now people are lying about having golliwogs ok then

I've heard it all now you are reading to much into this you really are. I posted on this thread to give a prospective from a mixed race/black person that I wouldn't be offended by the brown sugar bear, I own gollies because they don't offend me.

Oh, I believe that people have them, even collect them. I live in a place where people defend and even collect and display the Confederate flag, in spite of the fact that large swaths of the population perceive them to be racist and deeply offensive. They are defended as "history" and "tradition." Sounds familiar to the defense of having golliwogs.

Those of you who are golliwog collectors, would you have Confederate flags? If not, why not?

Because I don't like them. I like golliwogs.

Out of interest have you ever met a black person that has told you they are offended by golliwogs?