AIBU, DH colleague at work

[Freakingin]

NC - sorry just read back over this and it is so long. so thanks for reading it.

My DH has a potential major confidential career change coming up, he doesn't want even a whisper to get out about it, so we have only told two close friends about his plans.

Today he told me that X colleague (woman at work) has given him a suggestion about this situation. I was furious that he told someone in work and also that he told her, he says he trusts her and that she is a friend.

Anyway, we get into a huge argument about it, she is a junior colleague and I just don't get that he is so close to her that he could tell her this very specific information. I told him that I don't and never will approve of that kind of friendship with a female work colleague, He says that I cannot dictate who he is friends with, that I am unreasonable and that the problem is ME, because I have an unjustified issue with this woman.

The fact is, I do have an issue with this 'friendship', about 3 years ago there was an office party, which was loads of fun, DH and I left at the end of the night to go home, other people ended up going to a party. We were at home in bed, DH drunk and out cold, and about 4am his phone pings with a text message from X, asking him where he is, nothing inappropriate, just 'where are you, are you coming?'

I thought it was utterly inappropriate, 4 am, we are home, how could she feel that she could text him at all. Next day I tell DH about the text and that I thought it was inappropriate that she could feel free to text him in the middle of the night, what kind of work relationship did they have that this was okay to her. Anyway, he defended it, telling me I was making a big thing out of nothing, wasn't inappropriate at all, they are friends, blah blah blah.

DH is senior to her by very many levels. When I was working there is no way I would have even considered texting one of the senior exec's outside of working hours. let alone in the middle of the night. I will never be convinced that I was unreasonable to be mightly pissed off.

Over the past few years, I realise they talk to each other about personal stuff, i.e. one of our kids are sick and he says X gave me the name of this Dr. to consult. X and her DH are buying a business and he looked over the business plan for her. He praises how well she does her job and that she should be promoted etc etc. The hackles on my neck raise whenever she is mentioned, but for the most part I don't say anything. Although there was another blow up about something I felt was inappropriate (can't for the life of me remember now what it was !) on many levels.

Today when I blew up, I said something about them both having lunch together alone (I just threw it in there, didn't have a clue if he lunched with her alone or not) and he said ' I have probably only had lunch alone with her on two occasions, the rest of the time we have been with colleagues '. Well fuck me then !

At the end of the day, I don't think they are having an affair, but I really believe he confides in her and she confides in him.

There was a point in the past few years where our relationship was really rocky, he was going out 3 or 4 nights a week, business meals or out with mates to 'blow off steam'. Business meals which he would not get home from until 2 or 3 am. (I would be invited, but can't leave the kids with a babysitter every night of the week ! ).

He said I was being unreasonable and distrusting, that I was always welcome to come along but I didn't want to, although I would go sometimes, I was really close to leaving him at that time point, it was pretty ugly in our relationship during that period, but we managed to pull back from the brink and things have been going well. She probably knows all about that time too, ugh !

If you have read to this point, am I being unreasonable to detest that he has this friendship with this woman? AIBU to view this as a closer than normal work colleague relationship? I am beginning to wonder now if he had a fling with her, or if he fancies her and would if given the opportunity (although I would hope he would not blow his career for an office fling)

I am away at the moment, so we had the argument on the phone and he has not called back, probably gone out to drown his sorrows.

Malteser, genuine question. Why do you think it's unacceptable for married people to have work friends of the opposite gender?

What is the problem with this, exactly? And what about male-female friendships outside of work - are they allowed?

Maltesermom you are obviously entittled to your opinion as illogical as it might be, thank you for your candor in admiting that you are a very jelous person, i believe you are.

Every single man I have ever been 'friends' with has made a pass. Apart from the gay ones.

Sorry but i would be fuming. I admit i am an extremely jealous person, BUT the fact that she texts him would be enough to get my hackles up.

Then that would be an issue you need to work on. It sounds stifling and very controlling.

friends at work, both married? No i think that is unacceptable!

Have we just regressed to the 1950s

OP, if I were you I'd disregard any 'why can't men and women be friends yada yada' posts and listen to Lemonade and your instincts.

You're clearly not possessive and controlling. Your reaction to this woman is based on what you are observing and how this is making you feel.

You must talk to your husband about this, as calmly as you can. Point out that his golf partner, other female colleagues, etc, do not elicit this reaction in you, and you need to explore where your discomfort arises from.

Sometimes people don't realise the impact of their behaviour on others until it's pointed out to them. Once you've explained to your husband how you feel, the onus is on him to make sure you are happy and comfortable.

My DH gets on with women, has lots of women friends. I know he has lunch with women colleagues. He would think I was nuts and our relationship would be very short lived if I started questioning him on who he has lunch with.

You do need to sort out your own feelings and start working on trusting your husband.

I am jealous lol, my dp is fully aware of it too. Stifling? No.
As illogical as it may seem i dont think a female/male relationship in the work place is acceptable or even necessary. I also think that there is an ulterior motive. Past experiences have led me ti feel that way.
Fwiw me and dp have a great relationship.
Turn it the other way round, if a woman came on here and said i have been texting a married man (even if she were married too) at 4AM do you really think that is acceptable, truthfully?

I have had lunch with the same male colleague every day for the last 7 years, I consider him a very close friend now. It doesn't mean I'm cheating on my partner, who I adore. Likewise my colleague adores his wife and has never once made a pass at me over our chips!

My DP has female friends at work (female-dominated workplace) and often goes for lunch with one or more of them. He has also been for lunch with his exes when they are in town. I am OK with this because I know about it (he tells me, in the case of his exes he asks me if I'm ok with it), I know the women in question and I don't have a problem with him being friends with women, and I would want those same freedoms.

BUT I would still worry if there seemed to be one woman he was excessively close to, or he started to develop mentionitis about someone and constantly made out they were the dogs bollocks and a special confidant. There are friends, and there are special close friends where something seems a bit inappropriate and over-involved. If it seems like that, and makes you uncomfortable, YANBU at all.

How sad that that some people actually think it unacceptable to have friends who happen to be the opposite sex.

I agree.

OP I'm afraid the impression I've got from this thread is that we can't help you.

Every circumstance you have described COULD be perfectly reasonable and innocent, or COULD be an indication of something else.

In some of your posts you sound paranoid, in others you sound as if you are usually fine with opposite-sex friends and that this is somehow different.

I'd agree with the poster who said that "going with your gut" is not always good advice - your gut is not necessarily right or clever.

If I were your DH you'd be told in no uncertain terms to either get over it or fuck off. I would simply not tolerate such controlling and pathetic behaviour, a total deal breaker.

I don't think it's so much the male/female friendship at work thing that's the issue here, but the fact that one is so much more senior than the other. It depends on the culture of the organisation to a certain degree of course but even so, it could be unwise, if only that it could create resentment from others.

Not to reduce the issues here at all (I have no similar situation and no advice except to talk to each other) ... But on the male/female friendship thing, it's one of the reasons I loved the show 30 Rock. There were some real office friendships and for once they didn't reduce the lead characters to being secretly in love.

When I first met my DH, all my conditioning from the world and TV series like Friends told me that he had either probably slept with some of the girls he knew/lived with, or had unresolved feelings for them, and there were loads (not a blokey bloke). Neither could be further from the truth as it happens, but at first I too was jealous and my "instincts" were flaring up no end. Insecurity does that. Then I grew up.

As you appear self-aware and reasonable about any appropriate relationships in your husband's life (be they male or female) then I would trust your instinct here. Agree with others that the relationship at work, her being much more junior and paths not crossing often is telling. This does not sound like a boss/PA or line manager/staff relationship at all so not understanding why some are suggesting it is.

I also think that he has shown other inappropriate behaviour with his nights out leaving the childcare to you. Why did he feel entitled to do that?

I don't think it's so much the male/female friendship at work thing that's the issue here, but the fact that one is so much more senior than the other.

I've worked in very flat organisations where people are friendly with each other regardless of position. If someone is your direct boss it's important not to get too close (eg not be Facebook friends and the like) but I don't see the issue with being matey with someone who's several grades above you.

I also think it's very sad that people stop their other halves being friends with the opposite sex. I had a good male friend in Germany and his girlfriend and then wife stopped him having anything to do with me or any other female friends. His mother told me that the only woman the GF would allow in his life was her, and only very grudgingly. I'm still very sad that I lost touch with him and the group of friends we were both part of. I'm also surprised that he accepted her being so jealous.

I find this whole 'oh they can't be friends because he is more senior' argument very odd. It's all very cliche.

Sometimes you meet people (could be anywhere) that you get on with. Their sex, job title etc shouldn't matter.

I thought the days of senior members of staff not mixing with people below them was long gone.

And it is nice that work colleagues can be friends?! Work is work, yes it is good that there is an amicable work situation, but friends at work, both married? No i think that is unacceptable!

Fuck-in-hell

That is just depressing.

I suppose the thing that is odd behaviour is that if you and DH said goodbye to everyone at the social event including this person, and then she texted him after you both left asking him to return, that would be weird. I can't imagine ever doing that to a male friend who's left a social event with his partner, it is disrespectful.

But, as other people have said, texts are not always immediate; one of mine took 4 days once unbelievably, or phones are out of signal and they are delayed for that reason, who knows. Would the content of the text have fit if it was sent earlier in the evening? Did you arrive later than others?

I think being controlling in a marriage is a red flag, but from your posts, it doesn't seem like you have a problem, from his overseas holidays and other female friendships. You can only talk about why you are feeling this way and see how he feels. After several years of marriage and a history of not being controlling, I don't see why this would be a deal buster.

I think half the people on here haven't really read the OP.
She isn't objecting to her husband having female friends, it's just that there is a lot of circumstantial evidence amassing suggesting that all is not right with this one particular woman.
It may be nothing (it isnt), but it needs investigating.

Aside from the shots, the eye gazing, the late night text, the lunches alone ( and I totally agree that this would not be considered professional in most companies because of his seniority) there is the spate of very late nights out "with work" when OP and husband were having marital trouble.
Hmmmmmmmm.
And I've got married male friends , two really close ones in fact (one whom I dated years and years ago) and my boyfriend has more female friends than male. This situation is different, and people calling the OP " paranoid ", "controlling"and "pathetic" want to have a word with themselves.

"I thought the days of senior members of staff not mixing with people below them was long gone."

And who on this thread has suggested that they shouldn't be mixing at all? The point is that it seems to be more than that. Important confidences being exchanged, familiar texts in the middle of the night (assuming the particular text mentioned on here arrived at the time it was sent and the content of it appears to suggest it did), extended eye contact, mentionitis, drinking shots. It certainly could be drifting towards boundary crossing at the very least.

As illogical as it may seem i dont think a female/male relationship in the work place is acceptable or even necessary.
Really? What an outdated and peculiar view. I work with men shock horror quite a lot are just colleagues and a couple of them I would consider to be friends, albeit not close friends. When my DCs were at school I actively encouraged them to have friends who were both male and female, and they did. The sex of the person didn't come into it, the personality did. My DCs had large friendship groups and a lot were the opposite sex. Then we grow up and we aren't allowed friends of the opposite sex? Weird, just weird. It's just people surely.

Someone upthread said their DH had a friend who was female in work. She (the poster) didn't like this and because her DH respects her he started to avoid her and move away from the friendship. I think that is awful. Imagine if you were that woman in work puzzling as to why your friend is giving you the cold shoulder, not knowing it's because his DW doesn't allow female friendships.

Are the lunches alone actually not what they sound, but sat in the canteen together surrounded by work colleagues? The OP said her DH worked for a large company, so it could be that?

hurray ! for once the " trust your gut " advice so often thrown about here is being tempered by common sense.
your so calle d gut instincts are NOT always right and I hate to see that erroneous advice trotted out on mumsnet