Tube priority seat drama

[SniffsAndSneezes]

This will be a bit long winded I'm afraid (sorry) but I'll begin at the beginning... this afternoon after work I went and gave blood. I used to be regular donor but had to stop as I kept having delayed faint reactions, where you're fine immediately after donating but get dizzy and/or pass out anything up to (in my case) an hour later. So I waited a few years and was recently told I could have another try. So today I did.
Anyway, I got on the tube to go home afterwards (central line, about 6 pm which most Londoners will know is generally like a furnace) and I managed to get a seat when I got on (it happened to be a priority seat, I didn't pick that one by design)- which was just as well as I'd started seeing spots and my ears were ringing, which is usually a good sign that I'm going to faint. Knowing what was happening and what do I was leaning forward with my head propped on my hands, taking deep breaths and sips of water- not making a scene or anything but to the casual observer I probably didn't look the picture of health.
It's at this point that I get a tap on my shoulder and look up, and a woman with a not particularly large bump, baby on board badge and unimpressed look on her face, glares at me and says 'can I sit there please.' Yes, she said please but the manner in which she said it was still quite sharp and rude. I apologised and said that I really did need to sit and would she mind asking someone else? She then proceeded to very loudly berate me for not moving- this is a priority seat, you are supposed to give it up for pregnant women or disabled people, clearly I am neither so why won't I stand for her?? I explained that I'd just given blood, I wasn't feeling well and I was fairly sure that if I had to stand I'd either vomit or pass out much as I wanted to just tell her it was none of her fucking business. It was only then that the man sitting opposite me (also in a priority seat) stood up to let Angry Pregnant Woman sit down. Nobody else had offered, despite her outburst attracting plenty of attention.

AIBU to think that I shouldn't have to disclose my reason for needing a tube seat to any random stranger, pregnant or otherwise?? There a plenty of disabilities that aren't necessarily outwardly obvious, and while people are encouraged to stand for pregnant women on public transport, they are not actually obliged to do so and shouldn't have to explain themselves or put up with that kind of crap when they don't or can't?

YANBU at all. you did the right thing.
i once saw a lady say on a packed train "excuse me may I sit I'm feeling a little light-headed". Cue huffing and puffing as the incredulous occupier rose just in time to catch the poor lady fainting...
I never wore one of those awful badges. they tend to be sported by people who think a BFP gives a god-given right to a comfy journey. When I was big and uncomfortable enough to need a seat, if nobody offered, I would ask, and then be effusively thankful.

When I was big and uncomfortable enough to need a seat, if nobody offered, I would ask, and then be effusively thankful.

you don't need to be 'big' to require a seat in pregnancy. some of us suffer horrendous morning sickness that means we can barely walk. but kudos to you, congratulations you are fabulous.

Well, now that I know what a BOB badge is, I wish they'd had them in Birmingham in the summer of 1997!

The 90 minute commute in and out on the Cross City Line could be an experience to forget too. Although I have been an expert at playing sardines ever since .

Is there any legality to them? i.e. does an able bodied person have to give a priority seat up for someone wearing one? I know they should but am just interested how it works. Or are you still relying on people spotting your badge and being kind?

santa just relying on people spotting the badge and being kind, I'm afraid :)

The kindness hierarchy usually works as follows:

Most helpful - middle aged women who've probably had children and know what it's like and older men and women.
Then younger men who are freaked out by the concept of pregnancy
Then younger women
Least helpful middle aged white men who bury their heads in their kindle/City AM/Metro

I'm 6-7 weeks along and my seven stop journey on the tube during rush hour is pretty crap at the moment, in terms of feeling hot, light-headed and nauseous. I try and either position myself in front of the door at the end of a carriage so I can get some airflow or else in front of somewhere that a seat generally frees up at one of the big stations. Haven't got a badge yet but I really do appreciate it when I get a seat!

People wear Baby on Board signs?!

The attitudes to the BOB badge on here makes me want to scream. It's an eminently sensible system that makes negotiating London transport slightly easier for the pregnant (and those around them) conferring the following advantages:

Minimising potential for embarrassment for those who want to offer their seat but are afraid of offending

Making it a little easier to see a pregnant lady who gets on a crowded tube - its often difficult for those in the seats to pick out a bump if there are a lot of people around

Encouraging fellow passengers to minimise shoving and rough handling of the pregnant person for safety reason.

For those being snooty about the badge - do you see those advantages? Or do you think they are irrelevant and its all about benefiting the entitled and lazy?

All seats should be priority seats as someone said up thread. If someone offers you a seat (regardless of your condition) either thank them politely and accept it, or thank them politely and decline it. If you need to ask for a seat, address your question to several people at once to avoid singling out anyone who may not be able to oblige.
It really isn't that difficult.

People wear Baby on Board signs?!

Yes, in London on the hot, overcrowded tube they are extremely common and there's nothing wrong with them.

I think there should be a badge for anyone in a vulnerable position to use.
Invisible illness /disability would be in this group and pregnant women.
I don't think it would be open to abuse, as l think most humans are pretty sensible.
I spent my first and second pregnancies getting the tube - long hot journeys on the northern line.
I wasn't offered a seat at all during those times. My favourite journey was the one from Tottenham Court Road all the way to south Wimbledon. I was nice months pregnant. I hung on to the hanging ball thingy all the way!
Anyway. YANBU op. Glad to hear that you are feeling better.

That woman was quite rude - If you stated 'I am sorry, I am really not well' then she should have turned around and asked the other priority seat politely.
Key word, politely, politeness doesn't cost anything.

I have that the opposite, very pregnant, in a lot of back pain and was asked by a woman to move. I even had my baby on board sign (sigh, I know) these priority seats just cause arguments. I think if the people already sitting in the priority seats at ill, disabled, pregnant, genuinely less about to stand they should just ask people further down the carriage.

I feel that so many people get into these mini-scuffs on the tube over who is more worthy.

People wear Baby on Board signs?!

I think you're imagining pregnant women going to Halfords to get a sign for the tube. No. Here's mine. Invented by TFL, given out by TFL, in the hope that kind hearted Londoners will give up their seat to a pregnant woman without having to second guess whether she's pregnant or not.

It's not supposed to be a big deal, and frankly I find all the posters crowing about how THEY didn't ever need to seat, and why should a pregnant woman assume she has a right to a seat ANYWAY really fucking depressing.

I mean, I'm only too aware that commuting, especially in London, brings out the selfish arsehole in every person, but what about a little bit of kindness? Some basic empathy? Common decency?

oh wow, actually I am going to say that you were being very unreasonable.

Priority seats are there for pregnant women or people with disabilities. Not for people who are just feeling a bit off, or have given blood, or are hungover. If someone had a non visible disability then they could have just shown their disability pass and said nothing.

It's not for you to judge whether her bump was "sufficiently large" to warrant you giving her a priority seat that is specifically there for a pregnant or disabled person, and I think you are being very precious about it. She asked you specifically because you were sat in that seat. Someone in a normal seat isn't obligated to give up their seat - YOU WERE.

Honestly, if you sit in a priority seat then you move if asked or if needed.

Not all women swell up like balloons when pregnant. Some women stay "unimpressive" all the way up to when they give birth. Likewise, sometimes it's at the end of the first trimester when you don't look particularly pregnant that you really need to sit down.

Hufty's - whatever your personal opinion is, from a social perspective companies DO consider that pregnant women need seats more than others. Hence being included in priority seats...

I wasn't offered a seat at all during those times. My favourite journey was the one from Tottenham Court Road all the way to south Wimbledon. I was nice months pregnant. I hung on to the hanging ball thingy all the way!

Then you should have asked for a seat. No need to be a martyr and wait for someone to offer you their seat, because most people are MORE than happy to assume a pregnant woman is happy to stand if she doesn't indicate otherwise.

they tend to be sported by people who think a BFP gives a god-given right to a comfy journey

Roseotto may I congratulate you on your mind-reading skills? And I truly hope you are working in the NHS, because I wouldn't want all that psychic medical knowledge to go to waste.

Judging by this thread there should be a new line under 'least helpful' there LittleBear

Totally unwilling to help: people on Mumsnet who were lucky enough to have a pregnancy with absolutely no ill effects and are keen to pour scorn on those who are not in the same boat.

It is so disappointing to see the complete lack of support from some women towards others. People aren't complaining about 'a few minutes on the tube', I'd be standing up for over an hour in the morning and over an hour in the evening, if noone was willing to give me a seat on any part of my journey. I am willing to do this if needs be, because I have to go to work, but if someone is kind enough to offer me a seat, I am delighted to accept it.

More importantly, as several people have pointed out, it makes people think twice before barging me out of the way with their bags/elbows/umbrellas when getting on and off tubes, trains, buses.

'God-given right to a comfy journey' 'waited on hand and foot by their husbands' 'new culture of a minority who declare their pregnancy a disability'...what nasty, spiteful comments on a forum set up to offer support to parents.

Word, ThreeBeanRap, word.

She was rude to start berating you once you had outlined the situation. Not wrong of her to ask in the first place.

Someone else should probably have offered a bit sooner, as you clearly both needed a seat.

However it sounds like it was resolved quite quickly by the man giving up his seat, so maybe not such a drama after all.

There was no need for her to be rude, but probably she wasn't feeling her best.

I think bob badges are a very good thing. Saves embarrassment for the person asking for a seat or for anyone unsure as to whether to offer.

Poor old OP seems to have run into an arsehole, they get pregnant too y'know. So YANBU.

A colleague who'd commuted during four pregnancies gave me a fabulous line to ask for a seat that neatly avoids offending those with hidden disabilities:
"Excuse me, are you able to stand?"
Then if they say no, you simply leave them in peace! If in the two seconds that follows they don't immediately get up, clocking your bump or BoB badge, then you can explain why you need a seat. Or not, each to their own, but honestly, when it comes to tube seats, don't ask don't get.

I found the BoB badge very useful in my first pregnancy, as I displaced a rib by strap hanging on an "I feel fine and don't need a seat" day. Bloody pregnancy hormones gave me joints like silly putty. I had to do 'preventative sitting' after that, even when I felt ok, so always asked as soon as I got on. Waiting for an offer was usually pointless, and half the people who did offer looked like they needed a seat themselves (crutches, elderly, also pregnant etc), the other half were often young Asian men in suits, and older men in their 50s.

I've never yet met one of these mythical 'First Pregnant Woman Evah' types, everyone I know just got through their shitty commutes as well as they could (yay for the BoB badge), occasionally having a bad day.

sea l had the strength in those days and l was pretty young. looking back I probably wouldn't have had the confidence.
It doesn't take a genius, (when a nine month gestation bump is right in their face) to offer a seat!
Mind you. I was also threatened on the tube, loudly and late at night. Not one person stepped forward to help then either.

I find it bizarre that people can't seem to understand the difference between a normal seat - free for all, first come first serve, no-one has any more right to than anyone else and it's goodwill if someone offers it up, and a priority seat - meant specifically for pregnant or disabled people, who have a right to those seats, whether the person sitting there wants to move or not.

If they were the same, and everything was just reliant on the goodwill of others, then there would be no point in designating some seats as priority.

goodness what is a disability pass?

I had to struggle with morning sickness over 20 years ago on crowded buses in and out of a central large town, in fact I was sick next to a woman (only a tiny bit and what else could I have done?!).

I didn't need a BoB back then and I wouldn't use one now.

goodnessgraciousgouda I have a non-visible condition which means I do sometimes/often need to sit down on journeys. It is a properly diagnosed one, not "internet diagnosed" - I have to declare it when I apply for travel insurance (and pay more, the bastards) and all that sort of thing. I don't have a disability pass, whatever that is. Do you mean a Freedom Pass? Or a Disabled Person's Railcard? Because plenty of people have disabilities which don't qualify them for either of those, but which still mean their mobility is restricted.