To protest at the words "Jewish" and "Israeli" being used interchangeabley.

[Jewishnotisraeli]

They are not the same thing at all.

Most Jews are not Isreali

Many Isrealis are not Jewish.

20-25% of Israelis, including the Israeli army are Muslim, ( varies year to year)

Some Jews are Arabs. Some Arabs are Jewish.

Some Palestinians on the West bank are Jewish.

There are no known Jewish Palestinians in the Gaza strip as Hamas has succeeded where Hitler failed, in wiping out it's own indigenous Jewish population. This is the ONLY reason why there are no Jews left in this population.

Israel has done terrible things. Hamas has done terrible things.

Please don't classify things done by Israel as done by Jews, a quarter of them are not Jews. please don't classify things done by Hamas as done to Jews, many of their atrocities are inflicted on Muslims.

To say Jews and Israelis are the same is like saying English people and Anglicans are the same, many people are English and Anglican, many people are English but not Anglican, and many Anglicans are not English.

And also, some Palestinians, and some Israelis are Christians.

I was thinking the same Sam. Worriedmum is making the WB out to be Minnesota with lakes and vast water sources!

Actually, there is a precedent of offering water under peace deals such as that with Jordan where Israel is committed to transferring water. The Palestinians could easily have built such a clause in to a peace deal if it really had ever been about control of water - but it never was.

Look at the map I uploaded of the 2008 peace deal. Why couldn't they build a country there? The bits of blue that Israel would annex wouldn't stop them building a country, especially with the red land swaps.

And where is their counter-offer?

And if the WB and Gaza aren't enough - where are they going to build their country exactly?

have you been to the annxed land? have you seen how different it is to what is offered and the boon of their econemony of having their god damn land raped and pilliaged does not in fact make up for losing vast swaths of their land

Which also makes it near impossible to sercue / maintain sercuirty for the palastine state because of all the mini islands packets of land where they would need isreals co-opreation to access.....

you bloody well dont reward a sucessful theif by allowing them to keep the best parts of what they stole by only offering shitty scraps after.

because isreal has acted illigally and contines to build MORE settlements and so claiming even more land so palistine should negoiate with someone whom treats the peace process in such disadian that they will not even stop settlement building when it contines (they broken down the last 2 attempts because isreal intestified settlement builidng but you skim over that dont you? it was in fact isreal that caused the talks to break down

YANBU. I have met many Jewish people who are staunchly anti-Zionist.

Zionists are like any other extremists = defensive, utterly warped and impervious to reason. Funny that a people who suffered the utter horror of the Holocaust at the hands of the Nazis would go on to essentially turn Gaza into the largest concentration camp in the world.

Supporting Zionism is not atonement for the Holocaust, but its continuation in spirit.

palistine did offer a counter offer it was summily rejected by isreal because it forced them to concided 2 of their larger stolen settlements but you are making out that they did not take part when it was in fact isreal that caused all the talks to fail

Why doesnt isreal concide some of its stolen land with settlements on it?

No land has been annexed. It was a proposal. But, yes, I've been to the areas which were proposed to be annexed. It's not farmland.

What land has been 'raped and pillaged'? Here we go with the hyperbole again.

I don't think the settlements should have been built but the vast majority are settlement blocs close to the green line (not because of farmland or water) and the Palestinians accepted the principle that a successful peace deal would involve having to move as few people as possible.

Israel carried on building settlements and Palestine carried on allowing terror attacks against Israel. Not a reason to call off talks. And a sad excuse for not providing a counter-offer.

This was never about how much land or water. It's all about the refugees and their right of return to Israel which the Palestinians understandably find hard to give up but will have to if they want to reach a peace deal since Israel could never agree to it.

Where is this counter-offer? Which year? I've never seen it. Which settlements are you talking about? In both Camp David and Annapolis, the agreed principles for the negotiations were annexation of large settlement blocs and land swaps. Did this offer suddenly deviate from the agreed principles?

Worridmum - which talks did Israel cause to fail? 2000 AND 2008? And that's according to who exactly? Dennis Ross, Bill Clinton and Condoleeza Rice - while all having justified criticism of Israel - all agree that it was the Palestinian leadership who torpedoed the negotiations.

Lastuser surely isreali children would have made the point or are non Jewish isreali children somehow immune to getting ptsd when missiles fly over their homes and schools?
Although of course they are almost immune from actually being hit by them unlike the children of gaza.

Although of course they are almost immune from actually being hit by them unlike the children of gaza

Tell that to the parents of Daniel Turgeman.

Is he the one isreali child who was killed by missile during the month long 'war'?
The fact you can state one child by name speaks volumes to the inequality of the whole situation seeing as no one could name all 500 children who died in gaza. I remember the bakr boys though.

Just in case anyone gives a shit this is the list of the 504 Palestinuan children killed in that "war". It's disingenuous to claim that Israeli children (Jewish and non-Jewish) aren't better shielded and in less danger than Palestinian children. Hampsterdam did say "almost immune" not entirely.

s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/html/tables/Version3/tables/web13681.html

And yes it is a tragedy any child dying. The 500 take nothing away from poor Daniel or his family. The whole situation is a rotten bloody tragedy.

Thank you fuzzy. I don't know how anyone can read that list and not just weep.

I know! So many names. Karam and Kareem Ahmed Al Helou jumped out at me. 5 month old twins.

TheViciousChickenofBristol, you make this extraordinary statement:
"Funny that a people who suffered the utter horror of the Holocaust at the hands of the Nazis would go on to essentially turn Gaza into the largest concentration camp in the world."

I'm genuinely curious: do you actually, truly believe that Gaza is akin to a concentration camp? Or are you deploying a rhetorical device?

If the former, in what ways do you think Gaza is akin to a concentration camp?

Do you think there are gas chambers, medical tortures on unaesthetized patients? Do you think women are whipped to death, children thrown into crematoria alive, that anyone is literally enslaved? Is anyone transported to Gaza in cattle trains in conditions so terrible that a large fraction die on the journey? Is every single person in Gaza routinely stripped naked, shorn of all hair on head and body such that they are bleeding and given ill-fitting, louse-ridden clothes to wear? Do many hundreds of people die from guard dog attacks? Do you think the death rate begins to approach that of a concentration camp?

These, and many other horrific features, are what makes something akin to a concentration camp, at least to me. In my view, it neither supports the plight of Palestinians nor respects the plight of Jews and others who suffered in concentration camp to say that they are just one and the same. I don't see how anyone can think differently, but perhaps you'll respond and explain your reasoning (or state that it was mere rhetoric).

Exactly. It is a tragedy. Any child dying. It's not a competition. But it's true that the Palestinians have far more to gain from a peace deal than the Israelis.

HomeHelp- I missed that. Comparing Gaza to the Holocaust is not on. I just want to be clear that whilst I've disagreed with a lot of what has been said by some of the more pro-Israeli posters I don't think that's OK.

Egos

I think that the Palestinian parents should also look to their own leadership and ask exactly what they are doing to improve their lives.

Maybe a Gazan parent should ask Hamas that if they had all this concrete to build tunnels and shelters for themselves, perhaps they could have built public shelters for their children as well?