Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6

Original poster

Punishing while potty training

128 replies

purpleteapig · 10/08/2015 17:22

I know the general advice is no punishments, just rewards etc etc, but I'm starting to wonder if this is the way to go. We have a dis just turned 3 who's been toilet training for a few weeks and he can definitely do it (everyone is of this belief - us, staff at nursery etc) but chooses not to at times. He'll poo/wee at the most inopportune moments and recently has done it when we've put him in time out for bad behaviour. If they were accidents I obviously wouldn't dream of doing this but they are definitely not!

We are both getting v frustrated by it and were considering using a punishment such as no tv for that day to try and break this cycle. What do ppl think about this - is it unreasonable? I genuinely don't know what to do if this isn't the answer, as feel we've tried most other stuff such as lots of praise & encouragement, sticker charts, treats...

OP posts:

TheSoulCakeDuck · 10/08/2015 20:18

Mini, it's not every day, some days he can be fine and sometimes for two or three days, regularly taking himself off to the toilet (high fives, whoops praise all round) then he will be playing and completely swamps his pants and carries on sitting there till we notice. I genuinely think he can't be bothered to get up and go to the toilet. He also does a lot of small dribbles which I think is a different issue eg not emptying properly when he does go.

the Dr tested his urine for infection and had a quick look at him then said they don't worry about it until age 7

DisappointedOne · 10/08/2015 20:18

Hey, don't take your parenting insecurities out on me, purpleteapig.

Original poster

purpleteapig · 10/08/2015 20:20

Thanks Dinasaurs, that makes a lot of sense :-)

OP posts:

Tangerineandturquoise · 10/08/2015 20:23

It does sound like emotionally he isn't ready or willing, and emotional health is just as important as physical health-and I wonder if nursery are taking their stance as they are fed up of changing nappies in his room-is he the last in the room to be in nappies?

Toileting-sleeping and eating are battlegrounds for kids and parents, and he has found a battle ground that is working with you-he knows how to push your buttons to get your thermo-nuclear stress responses. Where would you draw the line on punishments? No TV, he'll scribble on the walls or use his get them to switch on the TV behaviour-time out, he has learnt how to work that one, he sounds like a bright lad, and if you fight him on this, he may well think up new battles/weapons to your punishments.

If he is battling you over toilet training-and having oppositional behaviour in other situations, especially it seems on some days not others, I would be wondering if something else was going on either at home or nursery that he doesn't like.

HighwayDragon · 10/08/2015 20:27

I punished dd once, I put her on timeout, she did a wee on the stairs, and said "hahaha now you've GOT to let me off" then smirked at me. I'm afraid I blew my top, she sat in it for 4 minutes. Never did it again. But actual accidents, never.

CultureSucksDownWords · 10/08/2015 20:29

For those that use it, what do the parenting guides say about when time out doesn't work/stops working? Is there a next step, another level to it? Or are you meant to keep at it until it does work?

swift13 · 10/08/2015 20:31

What a bizarre way to treat your child. How awful.

He is 3 years old. He doesn't do it to be defiant, he does it because he is stressed out or he has forgotten. Perhaps because you've punished him for dropping a spoon or something equally ridiculous.

Give the poor child a break and try again when he is ready

Minicaters · 10/08/2015 20:34

Soulcake are you following the advice on www.eric.org.uk - drinking loads, regular toilet trips? At the least I would make sure he is drinking plenty and going to the loo every breaktime and at the beginning and end of lunch. Avoid red juice and blackcurrant as it can irritate.

there are other options apart from waiting until he is 7. I found the school nurses excellent and tbh more knowledgable than our GP - this stuff is bread and butter for them. And they referred to enuresis clinic, which gave DD medication than relaxed her bladder and helped stop the signals getting mixed up.

DD could also manage the odd week of dryness but in her case it was either by drinking too little or by going to the loo 20 times a day. Neither was sustainable long term and it wasn't her fault, her bladder doesn't send signals in the same way as other people's so it's really difficult for her. Of course your DS might be totally different but if he has regularly damp pants you and he don't have to just put up with it until he's 7. As we used to say all the time to DD, everyone deserves dry pants :)

MinesAPintOfTea · 10/08/2015 20:36

Have you considered that bad behavior days are usually linked to tiredness#overwhelmed or discomfort? DS would escalate defiance until he peed, whether he wet himself, got to the potty, was being told off or appeased. He was just uncomfortable and unsure what to do about it.

Only consequence of accidents was always to ask him to take his pants off, clean him up amd new clothes.

LadyFenring · 10/08/2015 20:42

Wow, some really odd posts on here. Disappointedone certainly has a lot to say

OP, you are being given a rough ride. I have a mischievous 3.7 year old who only just got it, I do understand your frustration.

In the olden times punishment did cause anxiety (and therefore more accidents resulting in more punishment) because kids were forced to potty train ready or not, at a much earlier age. This is hardly the same thing.

Having said that, whilst I do not agree that punishment is the way to go, there is some good advice upthread to ignore it, if your DS is doing it to punish you. I do believe that some young children are capable of simple forms of parent punishing for want of a better word (holding breath for example) because it controls the situation.

Ignore and perseverance will pay off. Good luck.

MagicalMrsMistoffelees · 10/08/2015 20:47

I found the links you posted really interesting DisappointedOne and am fascinated by how psychology can help inform us how children learn.

OP - toilet training has been my biggest bugbear with both my boys. So perhaps I'm not in a position to offer advice! They are both bright, happy, good-natured, easy-going children. But toilet training?? Agh!! I don't know why but they just didn't get it. Even now at 8 my eldest occasionally is 'damp' whilst my five year old had wet accidents 2 days out of 5 at school throughout the Autumn term in Reception and still needs constant reminders or will be damp. We tried everything - reward charts, positive praise for success / ignoring accidents, stopping and starting, pull ups, pants with interesting characters on, potties in every rooms. On occasion I have totally lost it with them for accidents and these times are seared into my memory coz I feel so guilty because looking back it wasn't done on purpose. You see I honestly think they just weren't ready until they were ready. Boys can take a long time to develop what they need to be dry. It is a nightmare to live through but you get there in the end. And you've only just started so it's early days.

What I'm saying is please don't punish - I'm sure the accidents are not intentional and your child won't get there any faster if they are used. Good luck and I hope you don't let the pressure of nursery / school get to you (it has got to me in the past!). I am a Reception teacher too and think it's so wrong to make parents feel bad about accidents. There's a lot going on in the early years - going to the loo, for some chn, isn't top of their list of priorities!

poocatcherchampion · 10/08/2015 20:52

Tiredness is linked to playing up here. Also wee accidents.

Id scrap the punishments too and encourage and lead him in the right direction.

ScrumpyBetty · 10/08/2015 20:54

disappointed

Okay. Punish him more. Withhold food. Make him sleep in a cage. Rub his nose in it. Make him wear a sign around his neck at all times. Under no circumstances try to understand that he sees the world differently than you. Don't explain anything. Let him work out for himself that you don't love him when he makes a mistake. Make him save up for his future therapy requirements.

WTF??? The OP has not mentioned doing anything of the sort, all she has mentioned is witholding TV for a day, which I hardly think will result in a future need for therapy. You may not agree with what other parents are doing but you don't need to be insulting. I think you are the one with massive parenting insecurities, pushing your AP agenda on everyone all the time.

TheHungryCaterpillow · 10/08/2015 20:55

If you out a potty in the place where he has time out, you'll soon find out if he is doing it deliberately or not! "You are going to time out now. Here's your potty in case you need it whilst you're here."

Can you re-phrase it so it's not a punishment? So instead of saying no tv today if you wet your trousers tell him "if you keep dry today then you can have TV tonight/tomorrow"

mummytime · 10/08/2015 21:16

If you are noticing the accidents tend to happen at the same time as his behaviour is bad.
It is probably that both things have the same underlying cause and what you don't want to do is to get him to link: being naughty with having an accident or being told off with having an accident.

Personally, I would look for what is causing the bad behaviour: tiredness, too much stimulation, boredom, foods, certain events. What time of day does it occur, any days of the week worse than others? etc.
Then try to minimise the bad behaviour - reduce the stresses. Treat bad behaviour calmly and giving little attention.
Use the same for accidents - if you don't react he will not do it deliberately for attention - because he won't be getting it.

But do seriously consider if he really is ready.
I have 3 children. DC1 I worked hard at training at about 2 1/2, and had lots of accidents - and I tried to do it correctly.
DC2 I tried several times, then she suddenly wanted to use the toilet and was dry within a week; at nearly 3.
DC3 was over 3 before she got it, wore pull ups at nursery for a while.
I really wouldn't have worried as much with DC1, and it may well have gone smoother.

Aeroflotgirl · 10/08/2015 21:29

Reading with interest as Ds 3.7 years is in the same position as op ds, I am at the end of my rope. Even dd 8 who has ASD was quicker than this. It just seems as he cannot be bothered.

Aeroflotgirl · 10/08/2015 21:30

Some very good ideas on here. Ds hates being taken to the toilet, he has now started using the potty but fighting to pull his pants down, which I am ecstatic about as last week he was seeking all over the place, despite being taken to the potty 5 mins before to try a wee.

Aeroflotgirl · 10/08/2015 21:52

Whilst the vast majority of advice on here is very good, there are some on here who are plain unhelpful and nasty.

DisappointedOne · 10/08/2015 22:09

Nothing to do with AP. It's basic child psychology.

With respect the OP thinks punishment is the way to deal with accidents while toilet training. It sounds like she's listening to everyone else but her child. She could think any one of those suggestions is a good idea (I would have hoped the sarcasm was obvious but apparently not. ).

WineIsMyMainVice · 10/08/2015 22:15

I sincerely hope that some posters on this thread have got some sun cream on their heads - as they are in serious danger of getting sun burn up there on those high horses!!!

ThisFenceIsComfy · 10/08/2015 22:22

I really like the suggestion of putting a potty near him in a time out. Also if he does wee while in a timeout or while being told off, just don't register the accident. Just clean him up, change his clothes and move on.

Aeroflotgirl · 10/08/2015 22:24

I have sanctioned (withdrawn his cars, made him help clean, raised my voice), am finding my self it did not work, regular toilet rips are even if he's not doing a wee. He has started taking himself to the potty to wee at times, even if he forgets to take his pants down, it does not matter. Yes we have made a big celebration of it each time he does which he loves, that seems to be working.

MinesAPintOfTea · 10/08/2015 22:35

He is learning something tricky. That means regressions in other areas like behavior, and forgetting especially when over emotional is entirely expected. Thats why its recommended that you don't punish.

But because of the discomfort issue and not realizing or wanting to interrupt activities to use the potty you have to keep it positive. Remind, remind, remind and praise when he successfully goes when he was getting cranky.

It will take a few weeks ime

ScrumpyBetty · 11/08/2015 06:56

i would have hoped the sarcasm was obvious but apparently not

Uh, comparing someone who wants to with-hold Tv for a day, to someone who makes their child sleep in a cage, with no food and rubbing their child's noses in faeces is not being sarcastic, it's being outright insulting and frankly disturbing disappointed

The OP isn't talking about major punishment, just with-holding TV for one day. I also think that rewarding rather than punishing is the way forward, but frankly, with-holding television for one day is no big deal.
You're coming across as a really compassionate and enlightened parent disappointed (now that is sarcasm)

LadyFenring · 11/08/2015 07:44

With you there Scrumpy.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6

Swipe left for the next trending thread