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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Punishing while potty training

128 replies

purpleteapig · 10/08/2015 17:22

I know the general advice is no punishments, just rewards etc etc, but I'm starting to wonder if this is the way to go. We have a dis just turned 3 who's been toilet training for a few weeks and he can definitely do it (everyone is of this belief - us, staff at nursery etc) but chooses not to at times. He'll poo/wee at the most inopportune moments and recently has done it when we've put him in time out for bad behaviour. If they were accidents I obviously wouldn't dream of doing this but they are definitely not!

We are both getting v frustrated by it and were considering using a punishment such as no tv for that day to try and break this cycle. What do ppl think about this - is it unreasonable? I genuinely don't know what to do if this isn't the answer, as feel we've tried most other stuff such as lots of praise & encouragement, sticker charts, treats...

OP posts:
janetandroysdaughter · 10/08/2015 17:55

If time outs result in him wetting or soiling himself, you have massive proof they don't bloody work right there. Cut the punishments. All of them. Use rewards and encouragement for good behaviour and very low key reaction for anything else. If he has an accident for any reason whatever, just say 'Whoops!' and change him.

If it continues when he's older, get him to do most of the cleaning up (not in a punishing way, just explain the nappy goes in the nappy bag, the bag goes in the bin. He needs to get himself a new one etc. Then you can say: Good job! Thank you. It's a lot of work isn't it, though? Easier to use a potty.) No punishment needed. Ever.

PeppaWellington · 10/08/2015 17:58

I have known people put a sad face on a reward chart, to good effect.

It's very frustrating when you have a child who either doesn't care if they wee all over themselves (or worse!) or who uses wetting themselves to get something they want, or to upset you.

With some children you can reward and praise till the cows come home, but they just don't care if they're dry or they work out they can wind you up if they wee/poo themselves.

I would put him back in nappies for a few months tbh. Maybe even though he can do it when he chooses, really he's not ready.

ReallyTired · 10/08/2015 17:59

It sounds there is a battle of the wills.

Children love attention. Ideally they want A* atteniton, ie. rewards, cuddles. Children will do anything for attention even if that attention is Z qualtity attenion ie. a smack on the bum.

Punishing for toilet training is counter productive. Unless your child has an undiagnosed special need they will learn to use the toilet.

DeeWe · 10/08/2015 18:00

I think the OP is getting a hard time.
Children can use it as a weapon.
Dd2 certainly did. She was fully dry day and night (yeah, I know that night is to do with some chemical stuff, not anything you can do, she obviously produced it in quantities as she was dry at 18 months at night) at 2yo, but if she'd been not allowed something she wanted she would go away and wet herself. I am sure it was totally deliberate.
What I did do, OP, is totally ignored that I was certain she'd done it on purpose and pretended I wasn't bothered. "Oh that's good timing, because I was about to bath you." Type of responses. And then it took away it as a weapon. It was pretty much the only times she wet herself since the first week of toilet training.

SuburbanRhonda · 10/08/2015 18:01

kim

You're right, that sounds overly strict. Because it is.

Purplepoodle · 10/08/2015 18:02

I kind of get this with my ds3 deliberately standing next to the potty and looking at me while weeing on the floor. Simple answer was that I pit him back onto nappies every time he did it. He wasn't impressed but got there in the end

BuggerLumpsAnnoyed · 10/08/2015 18:05

YABU. Just stop and start again. When they're properly ready They Don't do things like this.

Paperthin · 10/08/2015 18:06

My DS1 was potty trained at around 2 and DS2 3.6. With both I took my cues from them, and they adapted quickly because they were ready. (My DM was horrified DS2 was still in nappies at 3 - deeply traumatic for her , but not for me or DS!) my DS 1 had a wee on the carpet about 10 seconds before someone arrived to view our house, we apologised and laughed about it, people don't mind and accept little ones sometimes don't have the control. I think it was because we were anxious about the house viewing and so he was picking up on it.
I think YABU to be honest to expect a 3 year old to get it right all the time, every child has accidents well after they are potty trained. I wonder if the accidents are to do with feeling anxious and under pressure. I would either : relax and keep trying but accept accidents with little or no reaction other than help to change and get dry, or, accept he isn't yet ready and go back to nappies.

Btw - when you talk about potty training I am assuming this does not apply to night time, which in my little experience takes longer to get.

Totality - what a shame your DC needs to be on a timeframe, that seems so young to me, why won't the nursery support children in nappies/potty training? Seems v,harsh. Plus extra pressure on you.

Good luck both.

MrsNuckyThompson · 10/08/2015 18:09

OP, I think you've had a rough ride here with the vipers.

I don't think punishment is the way to go, but that's why she was asking!

mathanxiety · 10/08/2015 18:12

You need to stop this madness and restart when you have read a few good books on the subject. If the other half of 'we' is your DS's father, then he needs to educate himself too

Crispyjoyluck · 10/08/2015 18:13

"Vipers"!!! WTF?

Minicaters · 10/08/2015 18:15

Regression is really common a few weeks in, when the novelty wears off.It is just a stage, albeit a frustrating and sometimes lengthy one. Don't change your tactics, it'll confuse him and you risk making it even more of a battleground. Keep it positive and consistent and low key.

itsonlysubterfuge · 10/08/2015 18:18

My DD was kind of similar, she could use the potty and knew when she was about to wee and still she did a wee on the floor (we have carpet, it was horrible) almost everytime. It was very frustrating and I did reach the end of my tether a few times and ended up shouting, but she did get there. She just turned 3, but has been potty trained about 8-9 months.

Nothing we did helped, only time. I wish I could offer you some practical advice, but time was what she needed. Also lots of chocolate, chocolate helped too Grin.

measles64 · 10/08/2015 18:24

Gosh it all sounds like hard work charts, treats etc. I just waited until they were 2.6 and started taking nappy off and putting on potty. A result in the potty got praise and kisses as if I had been given a bouquet of flowers an accident just cleared up. One little trick we did with all three was to give them a plant in the garden to water telling them they were doing such a good thing for the plant. Which was in fact true. My roses arent nearly as good as they used to be. Little boys bladders arent as good as girls, I often had to stop on the way home from nursery because I knew they just could not make it.

TheSoulCakeDuck · 10/08/2015 19:13

Op I feel your pain and might be about to add to it. my DS has just turned 5 and still does this, it is less defiance than can't be bothered most of the time. we have been battling through this for 2 years. we have had periods of a week at a time dry and the next week, swamped pants every day. we have had enough, school have had enough.

we have tried all the reward charts, treats and praise ad infinitim and still no progress. we have had him to the Dr's who found nothing wrong.

any suggestions from the mumsnetters would be most welcome

CloserToFiftyThanTwenty · 10/08/2015 19:18

No attention beyond the necessary to get them cleaned up when there is an "accident"

Lavish attention and praise when they get it in the potty

Original poster
purpleteapig · 10/08/2015 19:53

Thanks to all those who offered constructive advice and/or a sympathetic ear.

Our nursery's advice is that he is ready and not to abandon it now as we've come so far, but ultimately they'll be guided by us. Their feeling and ours is it's linked to behaviour, ie when he's having a bad day behaviour wise, the toileting goes to pot too. Not just time outs, used those as an eg, but also when he's being told to do sth he doesn't want to do, stop doing sth etc, so just in tandem with generally defiant behaviour. There are some good ideas/perspectives from ppl with children who have displayed similar behaviour so will have a think about next steps...

Disappointed one, your (many) posts are just bizarre & insulting so I'm certainly not going to bother reading those links.

OP posts:
ReginaFelangi · 10/08/2015 19:56

I rather enjoyed reading the links.

DisappointedOne · 10/08/2015 20:01

Ah, fair enough. Didn't realise you only wanted posts that agree with you.

Okay. Punish him more. Withhold food. Make him sleep in a cage. Rub his nose in it. Make him wear a sign around his neck at all times. Under no circumstances try to understand that he sees the world differently than you. Don't explain anything. Let him work out for himself that you don't love him when he makes a mistake. Make him save up for his future therapy requirements.

purpleteapig · 10/08/2015 20:05

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Minicaters · 10/08/2015 20:06

SoulCake, commiserations.

What do,you mean the dr found nothing wrong? DD was referred to enuresis clinic at 5 via school nurses. Tests showed everything was 'normal' but this is common in children with physiological issues (problems with how the bladder functions rather than how everything looks physically), it didn't mean it was necessarily her fault/our problem that she was wetting. How often does he wee in a day?

greyleaf · 10/08/2015 20:09

he is being punished for bad behavior and soiling is the fastest way out of the punishment

find a new punishment

AllThatGlistens · 10/08/2015 20:10

I get that you may be feeling defensive, but attacking posters who are generally shocked that you seem so determined to link toileting solely to bad behaviour and punishments will not help you.

Punishments will get you nowhere, fast.

You don't take your cues from staff at a nursery fgs, you take them from your child. When they're ready to train, they will. Barring any additional needs, obviously.

Forcing the issue will cause no end of problems.

TinyTearsFirstLove · 10/08/2015 20:11

I started training my eldest at 3.5. After weeks of accidents I was at the end of my tether. A family member said she's old enough to know what she's doing and to tell her off.
I tried that once and she looked at me blankly and just didn't 'get' it. I didn't do it again and just persevered. It took 3 months. I now know that she had physical problems and that was the reason why she was late to train. I was panicking as she literally got it just a few weeks before starting nursery school.
I was dreading training my second child because of the stress of doing the first. He trained in a couple of weeks and it was a breeze!
I'm just saying this because, having been through it, punishing probably won't work. Maybe he's just not ready. There's alot of pressure once they're three to get going with it but only if they are ready. Don't compare with other children.
Incidentally my eldest is very reliably dry now, day and night.
My youngest at 5 is still in night nappies and often has accidents in the day (despite being daytime dry for a year or so).
They're all so different. I hated potty training, it was hell! Good luck!

DinosaursRoar · 10/08/2015 20:13

do you believe he's delibrately having accidents to "punish" you/nursery workers when he's being told off/having a time out/not being allowed to get his own way?

Then no matter how pissed off you are at him, you can't show him that you're upset by his accident. I would also start being careful about how you praise when he does go to the toilet, if you are saying things like "it makes me so happy when you go to the loo" or "that's really good" it's quite clear to a bright child the opposite makes you sad/is bad.

Remove the emotion from going to the toilet, no stickers no charts for going, if he has an accident just change him, if he goes to the toilet properly, just treat it as a normal thing.

By the sound of it, he's a strong willed child and has found something that he can control that upsets you when he wants to. Stop giving him a reaction. Perhaps do time outs on an absorbant mat (the dispoable changing mat types) so cleaning it up is quicker - this has the advantage of you being able to take one with you where ever you go, so a 'naughty mat' rather than a 'naughty step'.