To think we are more divided by class, than race.

[WendyLooes]

I keep hearing the phase white privilege and can't understand it. I live in the North of England and some of the communities up hear are 99% white and living in poverty.

I understand that in many parts of London minority communities are also in poverty. I think that these people are bot victims of classism in modern Britain.

I once heard a story about Tudor Britain, London had a small black community which was protected by the English peasants.

This is not to say racism is not still a problem, however I believe classism is much more of an issue then racism.

I reject terms like white privilege because I think we need to make a bigger deal of class privilege. I honestly believe very few people are racist. The idiots that I have come across are reading (insert right wing paper) and doing exactly what the upper classes love a divided working class.

So aibu to think terms like white privilege keep us divided. The same as the right wing press. They both cause resentment.

[Lurkedforever1]

Ffs are you on glue wendy? And if you have managed to come to the conclusion being poor and black is something the black community should take some responsibility for, then there's even more reason the exact same thing applies to poor whites.

[fakenamefornow]

The whole baby mama thing in America is one.

I remember reading about the history of this once. In Africa people lived in normal family units in the past. Africans taken as slaves where told to breed with who that slave masters said they could, slave master broke up the normal family unit in that couples didn't get to live together as a family with their children. Women became 'baby mothers' this became the norm and was passed on through the generations.

I don't know how true it is, or how relevant to today even if it is true but there could be more to 'baby mothers' than it's all their own fault/choice. Again, I don't know though.

[Ubik1]

hat it does do, however, is to make it very difficult for white people to see their own racism or the racism inherent within the way society operates.

This is where it all becomes rather kafkaesque - or perhaps Orwellian

[WendyLooes]

Will a lot of black women are more likely to have absent fathers then other communities, that is more likely to lead to poverty thats fact. It is also called being a baby mama.

I do see white privilege as lazy because it lumps all white people from every background as privilege when its not the case. Why do poor white children do the worst at school then any other group.

[WendyLooes]

Yes Lurked it does. Some people in poverty are responsible for it. That is of all backgrounds.

[MizK]

I think it's lazy to dismiss the idea of white privilege. I think it makes us feel uncomfortable so it would be easier to pretend it wasn't a valid concern.

More people need to acknowledge it and discuss it if things are going to be made fairer. I feel the same way about this that I do about sexism. Just because most men I know are lovely and believe in equality doesn't mean they don't benefit I'm all sorts of ways from a society that has been dominated by them for centuries. It needs to be chipped away at, and I like that people are doing exactly that by speaking up.

[Blistory]

Are you white, OP ?

Because if you are, the very fact that you feel able to dismiss the concept of white privilege as either non existent or irrelevant, is a sign of your white privilege.

[prorsum]

Wendy, you have not quite mastered your subject and really don't have an understanding of the Black Experience. There are complex reasons for absentee fathers in the Black community and there are those of us banging our heads in despair at it, whilst also doing our best to ensure that it does not happen to our young women.

[SilverHawk]

I was in a Midland's town this weekend. Just down one road there were; two Lambos, one SLS AMG Merc 6.3, three Ferraris and numerous other hot cars I couldn't even idenify (sporty black Audi R8?). The drivers of these cars will never mix and will only marry their own class. ie rich Asian women.
Am I wrong?

[WendyLooes]

Its like talking to a brick wall with some posters. Single parent hood through choice and the baby mama thing (which is applicable to all races) can lead to poverty.

Racism has played an enormous role in the oppression of black people in the west.

But I have not changed opinion that we are far more separated by wealth which actually effects how long we live to how our life pans out. Then race which is simply a culture/skin colour.

[GeorgeYeatsAutomaticWriter]

You think that race doesn't affect how people's lives pan out?

[Ubik1]

whst I find difficult is that ideas and opinions can be evaluated on the basis of the colour of someone's skin.
Surely it's what is said and the evidence that backs up this viewpoint that U.S. The importNt but - not who is saying it?

I grew up on a mainly white WC council estate and I don't feel that many of the people there were very privileged. I now live in the west of scotland and the social Inequality and deprivation is well documented and again most people are white. It seems wrong to talk about 'white privilege' when I think about those people.

I think racism
Is absolutely a factor which keeps people in a less powerful socio- economic group. But class is s major factor too and that affects all people of every colour of skin, culture and religion. So I don't think white privilege is very helpful.

[Blistory]

If you can't get a job because of the colour of your skin, then racism is a destructive force.

If your health depends on research on white people then racism is a destructive force.

If you cannot get on public transport without people moving away from you then racism is a destructive force.

How then, is racism, not a big deal ? Poverty is soul destroying, life shortening hell for anyone. People of BME origin have a further layer of shittiness rained on them simply because of their race that even the poorest white person doesn't.

[Lurkedforever1]

So you think that the child of a poor white tenant farmer and the child of the white landowner in England now have less in common with each other than with a girl from a strict british Muslim family? If so you'd be wrong.
Also re black women choosing single parenthood- so do plenty of white women.

[WendyLooes]

Agree with UBIK

[Blistory]

White privilege isn't just about receiving tangible rewards or advantages. It's more about the lack of negatives. It's about not having people touching your hair or not calling you exotic or not dismissing your CV because you have an obviously different name. Not having all the little day to day disadvantages is white privilege. There are much bigger disadvantages but I'm trying to give examples of why white people might just not understand what their white privilege does for us.

All the above examples were given by people of BME origin to explain the 'othering' that white people do that we're not even aware of.

[WendyLooes]

Buffy Im not trying to. I see more general inequality because of the community I live.

Classism effects everyone, white privilege is really class privilege. Its more applicable to the US

I wont more acknowledgement that the working class (of all races) is discriminated against.

Its rarely even discussed the difficulty of the white working class, especially on Mumsnet.

[Sansarya]

Thanks Buffy, you've explained it better than I did!

[DoMyBest]

I agree with the OP: I think that, now, class is a greater divide than race. Let's take the example not of a poor communuty, but a priviledged, upper middle/upper class one. The white children in a top private school won't think twice about being friends with the asian & black children in their class (after all, they all speak & dress the same way), they're seriously unlikely to hang out with the poor children from the local state school nearby, though, who'll (to them) look and sound so different.

[HapShawl]

Completely agree with Blistory. the daily micro aggressions that add up. White privilege (and latent racism) means you don't notice them and can deny they even happen